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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Aragorn's varying swords...

stridersGIRL
Bree


Apr 3 2007, 11:50am

Post #1 of 25 (1682 views)
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Aragorn's varying swords... Can't Post

This is just a little nitpicky detail. I know Andýril is forged in ROTK, but why can't I remember the name of Aragorn's sword before that?

He makes it much more confusing when he leaps off a boulder in Amon Hen and yells "Anduril!"

Someone refresh my memory? :]

HeartsG





Alcarcalime
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2007, 12:26pm

Post #2 of 25 (1388 views)
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I thought what he shouted was "Elendil" (n/t) [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Morwen
Rohan


Apr 3 2007, 12:56pm

Post #3 of 25 (1367 views)
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Did it have a name? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't recall Aragorn's first sword being called anything except "the Ranger Sword" in descriptions and in the bonus features. I don't think any of the movie characters ever called it anything. This sword, of course, was a movie invention. In the books, he carried Anduril the whole time, even when it was broken. It was called Narsil before it was reforged in Rivendell, but it was the same sword.

P.J. thought a broken sword would look silly in the movies, so he gave Aragorn the plain Ranger sword to carry until he claimed Anduril, which, for reasons I don't fully understand, didn't happen until long after he left Rivendell. The first sword, not being an heirloom, didn't have a name.

I think Alcarcalime is right. I heard "Elendil!" too



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I wish you could have been there
When she opened up the door
And looked me in the face
Like she never did before
I felt about as welcome
As a Wal-Mart Superstore--John Prine


FarFromHome
Valinor


Apr 3 2007, 1:11pm

Post #4 of 25 (1386 views)
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I agree the first sword had no name [In reply to] Can't Post

and no special powers either. Aragorn's battle-cry is Elendil! which shows that he was already inspired by Elendil even before he was ready to accept Elendil's sword...

A couple of reasons I can think of for Aragorn accepting Anduril, the Sword of Elendil, so late in the movies:

1. A broken sword would look silly (as you say!)
2. The movie sword has special powers (especially in regards to the Dead) that Aragorn apparently was reluctant to use.
3. The sword is sent by Arwen just before the Paths of the Dead, just as she sends a banner in the book, so it becomes a symbol of Aragorn's kingship.
4. Anduril is too long to carry! It would drag on the ground if carried in a scabbard by a man on foot. I assume it's designed to be used only in a pitched battle, or on horseback. I don't know if this design has any basis in reality, but it certainly gives Anduril a lot of presence in the Paths of the Dead, and at the Black Gate.

...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 3 2007, 1:30pm

Post #5 of 25 (1377 views)
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A lot more fanfare [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book Aragorn suddenly just has the reforged sword without any explanation as they leave Rivendell. In the movie him getting it becomes a really big deal, even with its own theme music. I kinda like the movie better in that regard Especially with Tyler's reading of the "All That Is Gold" poem.

Besides, where would you expect the return of the king to happen except in "The Return of the King"?

I met a Balrog on the stair
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


(This post was edited by Darkstone on Apr 3 2007, 1:32pm)


stridersGIRL
Bree


Apr 3 2007, 1:44pm

Post #6 of 25 (1366 views)
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Thank you all very, very much. :D [In reply to] Can't Post

"Elendil"=battle cry? That clears soo much up. :]





Morwen
Rohan


Apr 3 2007, 2:02pm

Post #7 of 25 (1373 views)
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I especially like #3 [In reply to] Can't Post

I was disappointed that they couldn't keep Arwen's banner in the movies although I understand why it was cut. Using the presentation of the sword is a substitute for the banner makes perfect sense, and manages to condense the story for the film without losing too much.

Good point also about the sword being too long for a man on foot. I was afraid Aragorn was going to poke a hole in Theoden's tent!

And, as Darkstone points out, they were able to work the "All that is gold" poem into the movie, which I was happy to see.

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I wish you could have been there
When she opened up the door
And looked me in the face
Like she never did before
I felt about as welcome
As a Wal-Mart Superstore--John Prine


(This post was edited by Morwen on Apr 3 2007, 2:04pm)


FarFromHome
Valinor


Apr 3 2007, 2:20pm

Post #8 of 25 (1338 views)
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In the book [In reply to] Can't Post

when the Sword is reforged we still only have a vague idea what it's all about, and we only really find out about its importance to Aragorn, in terms of his heritage, as the story progresses. Not very dramatic, which is fine for a book but not so good for a movie that has to tell the entire story in terms of drama. So yeah, I agree, a bit more fanfare is called for. By the time Anduril is reforged in the movie, we understand its importance as the Sword of the King. And indeed, by the time we hear the 'All That is Gold' poem we understand that too, whereas in the book (where it comes in Gandalf's letter in Bree) it's more of a puzzle than anything else.

...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.


FarFromHome
Valinor


Apr 3 2007, 2:29pm

Post #9 of 25 (1372 views)
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Arwen's banner [In reply to] Can't Post

does make an appearance eventually - she brings it herself to the coronation!

I think the film-makers enjoyed doing little things like this, to bring in book-details in some other way if they could. One that I noticed and appreciated right from my first viewing was the envelope for the Ring - it was more dramatic to have Bilbo drop the Ring in full view, instead of inside an envelope as in the book. But the envelope is not forgotten - Gandalf seals the Ring up in one for Frodo later!

...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 3 2007, 2:32pm

Post #10 of 25 (1479 views)
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Arwen's banner.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...indeed arrives at the Pelennor with Aragorn, though how it got there and who is holding it is a bit of a mystery. Plus if you blink you will miss it. It's on the left.



I met a Balrog on the stair
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 3 2007, 2:36pm

Post #11 of 25 (1332 views)
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Hmmmm.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...guess they thought two small ones were better than one big one.

I met a Balrog on the stair
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Morwen
Rohan


Apr 3 2007, 2:44pm

Post #12 of 25 (1370 views)
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There it is! [In reply to] Can't Post

I must have blinked; I never saw it. I love the story of the banner because it shows Arwen's faith in Aragorn and her hope that good will win out over evil. I know that Jackson couldn't put every little side story into the movie, but it's nice to see that he worked in what he could.

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I wish you could have been there
When she opened up the door
And looked me in the face
Like she never did before
I felt about as welcome
As a Wal-Mart Superstore--John Prine


FarFromHome
Valinor


Apr 3 2007, 2:55pm

Post #13 of 25 (1381 views)
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Neat! I never saw that before! [In reply to] Can't Post

So I guess the one at the coronation must be the new, peacetime one - delicate, pale silver-grey. Clearly Arwen already has plans for a Minas Tirith makeover!

So how did the black-and-silver one get there? Did Elrond have the Sword wrapped in it maybe? (Nobody seems to be holding it in the image you posted - isn't it on the staff that's stuck into the ground, at the very left of the image?)

...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.


Magpie
Immortal


Apr 3 2007, 3:08pm

Post #14 of 25 (1347 views)
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I wonder if this is a leftover [In reply to] Can't Post

of the story line that had Arwen present at Helm's Deep. I don't remember (or if I ever knew) how she was to get to Helm's Deep.



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Why not join us for fun and discussion in
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(This post was edited by Magpie on Apr 3 2007, 3:12pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 3 2007, 3:12pm

Post #15 of 25 (1363 views)
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Arwen.... [In reply to] Can't Post

....originally arrived at Helms' Deep with the rest of the elves.

I met a Balrog on the stair
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Magpie
Immortal


Apr 3 2007, 3:13pm

Post #16 of 25 (1340 views)
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ahh... [In reply to] Can't Post

well, that answers my question but not the mystery of the banner.

Enjoy the LOTR movie soundtracks?
Why not join us for fun and discussion in
the current Movie Music Trivia Game.

SPECIAL *APRIL* EDITION OF THE GAME




elvenhobbit
Rohan

Apr 3 2007, 5:02pm

Post #17 of 25 (1350 views)
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He yells... [In reply to] Can't Post

Elendil (FOTR) but not Anduril.

-e_H-

Elven by name, Hobbit by nature

'Road lead ever on and on
down from the door where it began
now far ahead the road has gone
down from where all began' -FOTR-

and through all the world has changed
the ages come and go with time
and yet those remain unchanged
unto they journey westward
over the sea...


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Apr 4 2007, 12:44am

Post #18 of 25 (1364 views)
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Of course, PJ's comment was a load of hooey. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
P.J. thought a broken sword would look silly in the movies,



It wasn't that Aragorn would look silly without a sword, but that he'd look silly without a sword *for two and a half movies* - something the viewers didn't know at the end of FOTR. PJ (rightly) kept quiet on *how* Aragorn would get Anduril, so we were left guessing throughout TTT about whether the darn thing would show up.

Looking back, it would have been fun to dig into PJ's public comments during the movies' creation and release and see if the real message was hidden them - such as Weta's dead silence on the appearance of the Wizard Kabob photo (with a grey-clad wizard on a spikey wheel) that had fans in a frenzy about how Gandalf might die in the movies...

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Larner
Registered User

Apr 4 2007, 2:29pm

Post #19 of 25 (1327 views)
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Elendil [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, according to the script when leaping off the platform for the Seat of Seeing Aragorn yelled out "Elendil," which was used constantly in the books as his battlecry.

Apparently, in keeping with movie-Aragorn's reluctance to relive his ancestor's "weakness" and to give him a more interesting story arc, Aragorn would not properly choose to become King of Gondor and Arnor reunited until the final film, and until then he could not receive Narsil reforged.

The "Ranger" sword wasn't given a name.

In my fan-fics as a younger Ranger I have him carrying two swords, although the sheath for Narsil is kept amongst his personal goods, and left in the care of his cousin when he goes east into Rhun and south into Harad. I have the sword he carried as a young Ranger and as Thorongil in Rohan and Gondor and into Rhun and Harad named "Estel i Dun."

"Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." LOTR

"Don't go where I can't follow."

I mourn for this nation.


Finding Frodo
Tol Eressea


Apr 5 2007, 4:00am

Post #20 of 25 (1278 views)
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Hey, there you are! [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad you made it to the new boards!

Where's Frodo?


CADixie
Registered User

Apr 5 2007, 3:11pm

Post #21 of 25 (1312 views)
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banners [In reply to] Can't Post

I have noticed several Gondorian banners on the Pellonor in the aftermath of battle along with the white-fletched arrows the Gondorians used. Makes me wonder how the battle was originally shot and if the Gondorians actually made it out onto the fields. That banner looks like an embellished version of the one the Gondorians usually carry.

My son noticed this banner that appears briefly during Faramir's ride out of Minas Tirith. It appears to have the White Crown on it rather than the usual White Tree and we think of it as the King's banner. Probably simply a prop mistake, but we've had a lot of fun speculating on its presence.




Trevor S
Registered User

Apr 6 2007, 1:08am

Post #22 of 25 (1273 views)
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Banner [In reply to] Can't Post

At the coronation Arwen's banner is vertical and had a light greenish hue to it.


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Apr 6 2007, 5:01am

Post #23 of 25 (1280 views)
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I love your fan fics [In reply to] Can't Post

It takes me weeks to read some of your stories... but the amount of detail in them and your characterization is always fabulous.

Welcome to the boards. You probably don't recognize the s/n, but I reviewed once or twice ^^

My LJ
My art site
Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


FingonOfPittsburgh
Lorien


Apr 8 2007, 3:02pm

Post #24 of 25 (1233 views)
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re [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I kinda like the movie better in that regard Especially with Tyler's reading of the "All That Is Gold" poem.





Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament... There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death: by the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste (or foretaste) of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man's heart desires.

--J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #43, to his son Michael


FingonOfPittsburgh
Lorien


Apr 8 2007, 3:05pm

Post #25 of 25 (1281 views)
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re [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
of the story line that had Arwen present at Helm's Deep. I don't remember (or if I ever knew) how she was to get to Helm's Deep.



It certainly is. We posted about that here when the EE of TTT came out. There's no doubt she was originally filmed there. I think she even mentions it on one of the commentaries. Plus the frame you posted above is further proof.


Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament... There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death: by the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste (or foretaste) of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man's heart desires.

--J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #43, to his son Michael

 
 

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