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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Saruman as Gandalf's mentor in Film 1 and as Head of the Council at Film 2

Michael X
Bree


Oct 5 2008, 1:47pm


Views: 334
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Saruman as Gandalf's mentor in Film 1 and as Head of the Council at Film 2 Can't Post

In the Fellowship of the Ring, (the movie) one of the first things Gandalf does is going to inform Saruman of the situation "He's both wise and powerful.He'll know what to do." Throughout FOTR, Saruman is talking to Gandalf in his mind and it is clear Gandalf can hear him (see Pass of Caradras). This seems like an old habit for the two wizards and it is a known ability for the White Council members. The concept that is given for Saruman in the trilogy, is that he is falling, and his might diminishing (with the peak of that concept in the broken staff and Saruman's fall from the Pinnacle of Orthanc).
It is a common idea that the grace and enormous might of Saruman the White must be shown in the two Hobbit movies.
I think that Saruman could appear as Gandalf's mentor, talking in his mind and aiding him with what is ahead, while, at the same time, supervising his mission and trying to learn as much as he can. Tolkien gives a clear impression that, even if Saruman despises the Hobbits, he fears the importance they may have, and later visits the Shire a number of times, having a clue that the Ring might be there. If Saruman stays in (a nice,green, forested) Isengard, in his tower, reading books and seeing things via Palantir (without Gandalf knowing), then C.Lee does not need to move from London either, as they'll only meet in mind. That is a way to display the huge importance Saruman had for all of Middle-Earth, even if very few knew it and at the same time displaying the Saruman-Gandalf friendly relation that is shown in FOTR, as well as Gandalf's surprise. Now, about why Saruman is not "advising" Gandalf in the TTT?? Because Saruman has fallen enough that Gandalf is stronger than him, and he can't accept that.
About Film 2 of the Hobbit, there will most probably be 2 major battles: the battle of the 5 armies, and the siege of Dol-Guldur. These could be shown as parallel Good vs Evil battles. It is clear from Tolkien that Saruman "won" the battle of Dol-Guldur. Gandalf (almost) says that "It was because of Saruman's devices that we got the Necromancer out of there". Now, a device should appear, that is different from the mine of Helm's Deep, and that is not used on Helm's Deep, so that the devices used at Helm's Deep were actually surprises. But why not using it on Helm's Deep if it exists? Because it wouldn't work on stone. Now, the concept of Dol-Guldur through movies, books and Games is that of a Fortress made of iron. So, "electrio-magnetic" devices could be used to tear down wall parts and overcharge the fortress (remember, Saruman's devices are always a surprise). Also, to show his power and grace, Saruman should be leading the army to Dol-Guldur and actually orchestrating his very devices with his own power. Thus, Saruman could be a very good guy and the surprise in FOTR greater. Also, in Film 2, Saruman's good relations with the Good must be shown to further increase the surprise, for exemple, the Dunedain Rangers that use Isengard as a base.
These have been my thoughts so far to help meet C.Lee's requirements (staying in London as much possible) and the community's will (that Saruman is in both movies), to show Saruman's grace, Saruman-Gandalf relation, and give a continuity to the 5 films...

One ill turn deserves another! It is over!

Subject User Time
Saruman as Gandalf's mentor in Film 1 and as Head of the Council at Film 2 Michael X Send a private message to Michael X Oct 5 2008, 1:47pm
    something along those lines MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Oct 5 2008, 7:07pm
    Some disagreements simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Oct 5 2008, 10:10pm
        WHAT IF MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Oct 6 2008, 12:01am
        Ok Michael X Send a private message to Michael X Oct 6 2008, 7:49pm
            The Hobbit should not be changed at all simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Oct 7 2008, 4:21am
                Dol Guldur MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Oct 7 2008, 8:51am
                    I'm talking about some battle in Dol Guldur simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Oct 7 2008, 5:10pm
                        yes but MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Oct 8 2008, 12:53am
                            Dol Guldur Michael X Send a private message to Michael X Oct 9 2008, 9:21pm
                                I'm in the middle of it, thanks for the reference // simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Oct 9 2008, 10:13pm
                                Well I am eager for the return of Saruman, and Mr. Lee, and long for the White Coucil AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Oct 13 2008, 3:47am

 
 
 

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