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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
What should be included in F2?
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simplyaven
Grey Havens


Oct 3 2008, 3:30am

Post #1 of 46 (440 views)
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What should be included in F2? Can't Post

In another thread we started discussing what should be included in F2. Then we thought a new thread should be posted and TORNsibs could submite their suggestions and their vision of the movie. Here are the time borders, taken from Appendix B, Tale Of the Years. I copied the text from here: http://www.kevnet.com:9000/...0TEXT/appendixB.html If you need to check for previous events, the entire Appendix is there.
Now, after I read the Appendix again, I think GDT could make a number of retrospections. What do you think and which events you would include in the movie?

2949 Gandalf and Balin visit Bilbo in the Shire.

2950 Finduilas, daughter of Adrahil of Dol Amroth, born.

2951 Sauron declares himself openly and gathers power in Mordor. He begins the rebuilding of Barad-dûr. Gollum turns towards Mordor. Sauron sends three of the Nazgûl to reoccupy Dol Guldur. Elrond reveals to 'Estel' his true name and ancestry, and delivers to him the shards of Narsil. Arwen, newly returned from Lórien, meets Aragorn in the woods of Imladris. Aragorn goes out into the Wild.

2953 Last meeting of the White Council. They debate the Rings. Saruman feigns that he has discovered that the One Ring has passed down Anduin to the Sea. Saruman withdraws to Isengard, which he takes as his own, and fortifies it Being jealous and afraid of Gandalf he sets spies to watch all his movements; and notes his interest in the Shire. He soon begins to keep agents in Bree and the Southfarthing.

2954 Mount Doom bursts into flame again. The last inhabitants of Ithilien flee over Anduin.

2956 Aragorn meets Gandalf and their friendship begins.

2957-80 Aragorn undertakes his great journeys and errantries. As Thorongil he serves in disguise both Thengel of Rohan and Ecthelion II of Gondor.

2968 Birth of Frodo.

2976 Denethor weds Finduilas of Dol Amroth.

2977 Bain son of Bard becomes King of Dale.

2978 Birth of Boromir son of Denethor II.

2980 Aragorn enters Lórien and there meets again Arwen Undómiel. Aragorn gives her the ring of Barahir. and they plight their troth upon the hill of Cerin Amroth. About this time Gollum reaches the confines of Mordor and becomes acquainted with Shelob. Théoden becomes King of Rohan.

2983 Faramir son of Denethor born. Birth of Samwise.

2984 Death of Ecthelion II. Denethor II becomes Steward of Gondor.

2988 Finduilas dies young.

2989 Balin leaves Erebor and enters Moria.

2991 Éomer Éomund's son born in Rohan.

2994 Balin perishes, and the dwarf-colony is destroyed.

2995 Éowyn sister of Éomer born.

c. 3000 The shadow of Mordor lengthens. Saruman dares to use the palantír of Orthanc, but becomes ensnared by Sauron, who has the Ithil Stone. He becomes a traitor to the Council. His spies report that the Shire is being closely guarded by the Rangers.

3001 Bilbo's farewell feast Gandalf suspects his ring to be the One Ring. The guard on the Shire is doubled. Gandalf seeks for news of Gollum and calls on the help of Aragorn.

3002 Bilbo becomes a guest of Elrond, and settles in Rivendell. 3004 Gandalf visits Frodo in the Shire. and does so at intervals during the next four years.

3007 Brand son of Bain becomes King in Dale. Death of Gilraen.

3008 In the autumn Gandalf pays his last visit to Frodo.

3009 Gandalf and Aragorn renew their hunt for Gollum at intervals during the next eight years, searching in the vales of Anduin, Mirkwood, and Rhovanion to the confines of Mordor. At some time during these years Gollum himself ventured into Mordor, and was captured by Sauron. Elrond sends for Arwen. and she returns to Imladris; the Mountains and all lands eastward are becoming dangerous.

3017 Gollum is released from Mordor. He is taken by Aragorn in the Dead Marshes, and brought to Thranduil in Mirkwood. Gandalf visits Minas Tirith and reads the scroll of Isildur.

The retrospections I'd like to see:
Aragorn's presence in Minas Tirith as a councellor
The War or the Dwarves and Orcs, mostly the battle before the East Gate of Moria
Thrain and the taking of the Seventh Ring. Gandalf's journey to Dol Guldur.
The previous meetings of the White Council as well as to follow Saruman's search for the ring.
The Fell Winter
The Dunedain - Arathorn, Gilraen and Aragorn's journey to Rivendell

And many more I found but I'll keep the list short. I assume the Aragorn/Arwen story will be there anyways, so I don't put it here. What are your chosen moments?

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Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Oct 3 2008, 6:21am

Post #2 of 46 (272 views)
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Aragorn! [In reply to] Can't Post

...

There's a reason why they don't let me anywhere near the script. Laugh

AinurOlorin has posted some interesting topics in the past on what should and shouldn't be included, as have others. I just want a plot that is plausible, not too cringe-worthy, and makes a good movie. I'm thoroughly convinced that Dol Guldur can do that, but we'll see.

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xy
Rohan

Oct 3 2008, 7:23am

Post #3 of 46 (311 views)
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my picks [In reply to] Can't Post

a) as little Aragorn/Arwen as possible, I don't mind Aragorn hunting Gollum and befriending Gandalf

b) Gandalf and the White Council meetings, Saruman falling under the Ring's influence

c) Dol Guldur - 'wraiths and Necromancer, fighting with Rivendell (Lothlorien too, if needed)

d) Gollum meeting Shelob, dwarves in Moria meeting Balrog


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Oct 3 2008, 11:41am

Post #4 of 46 (279 views)
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Hm ... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Saruman falling under the Ring's influence


No. That would destroy the surprise about Saruman's treachery for everyone later on who watches TH and F2 before LotR. We all know about that now, but in later years the movies will be seen as a five-part-story, beginning with TH, IMO.

But the rest sounds good Smile

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

(This post was edited by Peredhil lover on Oct 3 2008, 11:42am)


Jettorex
Lorien


Oct 3 2008, 2:04pm

Post #5 of 46 (253 views)
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My take [In reply to] Can't Post

TH really does not include Aragorn or Sauron. By the time we are introduced to them in LotR these characters are already well established.

Therefore, I think the overall scope of F2 could be the rise of Aragorn and Sauron (with Gandalf as main instigator, of course) and the growing problem.

Possible scenes and storylines:

Balin and Gandalf visit Bilbo (maybe a good way to start F2 to maintain continuance with TH)
Young Aragorn in Rivendell
Meeting of Arwen and Aragorn
Balin and dwarves recolonize Moria
Aragorns exploits in the South
White council meeting
Gandalf meeting Thrain in Dol Guldur(as retrospect?)
Gollums wandering/hunted by Gandalf and Aragorn
Gandalf meeting Radagast
Aragorn and Rangers in the north (protecting shire)
Saruman discovering(?) the palantir and using it for first time

Possible ending, climactic scenes:

Dwarves defeated at Moria
Gandalf/White Council/Aragorn confront/ drive Sauron and Nazgul from Dol Guldor(I know to include Aragorn in this scene would be anachronistic but this"artistic liscence" I think would need to be taken for the movie). This would be main climax of F2.
Frodos Birth
Sauron re-appearing in Mordor (possibly as final shot, an ominous portent of whats to come in LotR).

Love, Truth, Honor, Adventure


simplyaven
Grey Havens


Oct 3 2008, 3:00pm

Post #6 of 46 (235 views)
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I'm with you ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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simplyaven
Grey Havens


Oct 3 2008, 3:03pm

Post #7 of 46 (237 views)
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It could be made intriguing [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't see the movie without any hint about Saruman's change. I thought they could make it look very intriguing like showing him opposing the attack on Dol Guldur but giving some "good" reasons. And then showing him on a lonely journey, apparently in search for something but without saying he is looking for the ring... Something like this.

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simplyaven
Grey Havens


Oct 3 2008, 3:07pm

Post #8 of 46 (248 views)
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Yours is a great list. Which of these are allowed to go in F2? [In reply to] Can't Post

Now I started thinking which of these GDT and PJ are actually allowed to include in the movie... I wonder if the fact they are listed in Appendix B means the team can develop them into movie stories?

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Miret
Rivendell


Oct 3 2008, 4:21pm

Post #9 of 46 (232 views)
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Hmmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it should END with Aragorn and Gilraen arriving at Elrond's door.

but the rest? Oh, man there's so so so much! I'd love to see well, for lack of a better word, vignettes that lead us up to the Hobbit itself. a Sequel that's a prequel of its own, I guess.

Meddle not in the affair of cats, for they are easily irritated and will pee on your keyboard

Decaf, anyone?


simplyaven
Grey Havens


Oct 3 2008, 4:27pm

Post #10 of 46 (228 views)
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But if it ends [In reply to] Can't Post

with Aragorn and Gilraen going to Rivendell, what would be the bridge film to LOTR? Which film will cover the 60 year gap between the Hobbit and LOTR? And in this case some of the most interesting things Aragorn participated in would be out of the movies.

Culinary journey through Middle Earth starting October 15 on the Main board

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Miret
Rivendell


Oct 3 2008, 4:44pm

Post #11 of 46 (226 views)
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Ahhh but there's a certain logic! [In reply to] Can't Post

If it ends with Gilraen and Aragorn arriving at that Last Homely House then there's no pressure on Viggo. ;)


But yeah, the 60 year gap, the tension builder as Sauron's influence is again felt. That's the tricky. In a perfect (hahaha) world, there'd be F1, the Hobbit, then F2...(which would be F3!) to cover it all in such a way that we'd have tons of 'ah-HA!' moments.

Meddle not in the affair of cats, for they are easily irritated and will pee on your keyboard

Decaf, anyone?


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Oct 3 2008, 5:44pm

Post #12 of 46 (223 views)
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The problem is [In reply to] Can't Post

Is that they came to Elrond's door *before* the Hobbit, and so would not make any sense. By the time F2 is supposed to take place, Aragorn is anywhere in between 11 years old and 87 years old, depending on which part of that gap they want to use for this movie.

My LJ
My art site
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NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Oct 3 2008, 6:24pm

Post #13 of 46 (225 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

when they find very good reasons, it might be possible to make him argue a bit against the attack on Dol Guldur, though it shouldn't be too obvious. Remember, even Gandalf was completely clueless in FotR, so Saruman can't have done much in that regard.
The searching, on the other hand ... I don't know. It might be a wink for the LotR fans, but from the perspective of a movie-firster it's a scene that doesn't make any sense, I think. But that's just me, of course.

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


simplyaven
Grey Havens


Oct 3 2008, 7:24pm

Post #14 of 46 (231 views)
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Saruman could find some "good" reasons [In reply to] Can't Post

he is a clever guy (not to speak about the script writers Wink ). I can "see" the scene with his search in my mind but I can't describe it. Actually I see it as a row of scenes which are shown between other scenes. Something like the Ringwraiths riding here and there in the FoTR but without a clue, of course. This is not a good comparison but can't think of any better. I was thinking they could make it in a way which would make the viewer think "oh, what is he doing, where is he going?... mmm, he doesn't look nice. I wonder what he is up to now..' - kind of...

Culinary journey through Middle Earth starting October 15 on the Main board

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(This post was edited by simplyaven on Oct 3 2008, 7:25pm)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 3 2008, 7:48pm

Post #15 of 46 (225 views)
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At the risk of getting kicked off the boards [In reply to] Can't Post

I would be totally ok with a completely original story featuring as many LOTR cast as possible. Maybe they could borrow lines from the source material, mix and match at will, I just want to see Aragorn, Legolas and co again.


simplyaven
Grey Havens


Oct 3 2008, 10:05pm

Post #16 of 46 (209 views)
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I've had this heretic thought a few times too... [In reply to] Can't Post

And not so much because of the cast but because I would find it very exciting if I was a script writer. I mean, to have some guidelines but then to have the freedom to work with the words, ages, characters like with a dough. To create something new...

Culinary journey through Middle Earth starting October 15 on the Main board

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SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 3 2008, 10:32pm

Post #17 of 46 (204 views)
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Well met [In reply to] Can't Post

it is comforting to know I am not alone in this heresy.


Eruwestial37
Rohan

Oct 4 2008, 3:59am

Post #18 of 46 (202 views)
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I'm with you too! [In reply to] Can't Post

I really hope to see our beloved cast again, and PJ and Co know the works of Tolkien so very well I think they could create a reasonable script to include most of them.

These films to me are icing on Tolkien's cake. The books are inviolate, not capable of being hurt by anything done in another medium.

To give us, the fans who've waited and hoped, another look at the world and characters we've come to love. That would be a gift beyond measure!

Anyone who found this not to their liking could simply avoid it. I know I'd see it often enough to make up for a lot of them.Blush

Eruwestial
Heretic and proud of it!


Sunflower
Valinor

Oct 4 2008, 4:50am

Post #19 of 46 (186 views)
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Goodness. [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't think anyone was seriously going to post the Timeline! Simplyaven, this is amazing.

This deserves a longish reply, as the time-line is convoluted....but one thing that struck me immediately was just how important a character Saruman was in all this.

Every night I say a prayer that Christopher Lee will be able to reprise his role as Saruman, in some way.
I will reply in future, don't worry....but it's a bit too late for thinking where I amWink


guitarzankansasfan
Lorien


Oct 4 2008, 7:44am

Post #20 of 46 (225 views)
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Frodo's parents dying and him getting adopted by Bilbo [In reply to] Can't Post

The drowning of Frodo's parents--(Drogo would be played by Daniel Radcliffe of course) What if Gollum swims up the Baranduin and tips the boat over? Ok that wasn't in the story but it would be very Hollywood.

Anyway, after the death of Drogo Baggins, Bilbo is shown holding the little boy and some traveler says something like, "is that your son?" to which Bilbo replies, "Of course not, he's my nephew! Besides, if I'd ever had a son I would have named him Bingo."

Ok, so I don't know how GDT, PJ & co. will write it but that's how I imagine that scene.



.


"llapan wayrapi ñutu-hallp'ata kawayku"

(This post was edited by guitarzankansasfan on Oct 4 2008, 7:45am)


simplyaven
Grey Havens


Oct 4 2008, 4:44pm

Post #21 of 46 (167 views)
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Woohoo, the heretic army is growing :))) [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad to know we'll be able to fight Cool Seriously, I'm so desperate to see them again! I can already picture all of them in my mind. I can't wait to see the green fields, little holes, beautiful Rivendell and all our heroes on the screen! Come on, GDT! Wink

Culinary journey through Middle Earth starting October 15 on the Main board

I believe


simplyaven
Grey Havens


Oct 4 2008, 4:45pm

Post #22 of 46 (165 views)
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You have my vote for F3 :))) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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simplyaven
Grey Havens


Oct 4 2008, 4:48pm

Post #23 of 46 (160 views)
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Can't wait for your input too! [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course I was serious, nothing is too much when it comes to Tolkien, is it? Cool Ah, I agree with you, I also realized how important for the plot Saruman is. I think it will depend very much on script writers how his part will be presented. And performed afterwards.

Culinary journey through Middle Earth starting October 15 on the Main board

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simplyaven
Grey Havens


Oct 4 2008, 4:50pm

Post #24 of 46 (174 views)
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I've thought about this too [In reply to] Can't Post

I tried to imagine how this could work... May be Frodo could be shown growing up with the rest of the guys... Listening to Bilbo's stories, it could be another way for making a retrospection?

Culinary journey through Middle Earth starting October 15 on the Main board

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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Oct 4 2008, 9:00pm

Post #25 of 46 (187 views)
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this would be a kick as* plot [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the first half of the second film should be Gandalf with other wizards/elves going into Mirkwood and combating the necromancer, then after that Gandalf and Aragorn team up to track down gollum.

(This post was edited by Ataahua on Oct 4 2008, 9:10pm)

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