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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Sep 23 2008, 5:24pm
Post #1 of 11
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The Siege of Gondor III -- “Food is now doled out by order.”
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This post covers the chapter’s first, second, and third sections.
On his second day in Minas Tirith, Pippin wakes to darkness and a small breakfast. Gandalf rebuffs his complaints. They return to the Tower, where Denethor makes Pippin his esquire. Pippin receives a uniform. After waiting on Denethor for nine hours, he joins Beregond for dinner.
Questions
1. Compare Pippin’s question about Denethor (“And will he provide breakfast?”) to Merry’s comment back in Bree (“There is one crumb of comfort … and more than a crumb, I hope: we can have breakfast while we wait – and sit down to it. Let’s get hold of Nob!”)
2. Pippin thinks Denethor is “like an old patient spider”. Why this reminder of Shelob?
3. Denethor knows that “the board is barer” than Pippin would like. Has Beregond been reporting to Denethor on his conversations with Pippin?
4. Denethor asks if Pippin can sing. What kind of songs does Denethor like?
5. Denethor questions Gandalf about “the Rohirrim and their policies, and the position of Éomer, the king’s nephew”. What does Denethor wish to learn?
6. Pippin receives a hauberk, helm, and surcoat, and surrenders his old clothes. Does he also receive a shirt? Trousers? Socks? Shoes? Why does the helmet have “raven-wings”?
7. Pippin “looked now … verily Ernil i Pheriannath, the Prince of the Halflings, that folk had called him”. But he’s dressed just like any other member of the Guard – what’s so princely about that?
8. Denethor describes Pippin’s duties are to “wait on me, bear errands, and talk to me”. Day’s end finds Pippin “tired out with idleness and waiting”. Has Pippin ever worked in his life?
9. At Mythcon, Nicholas Birns claimed (tentatively) that there are no references to theater in the Middle-earth legendarium. I noticed one exception while preparing for this discussion: “In some other time and place Pippin might have been pleased with his new array, but he knew now that he was taking part in no play; he was in deadly earnest the servant of a grim master in the greatest peril” (emphasis added). Can you think of other exceptions? What is the status of the performing arts in Middle-earth?
10. Speaking of theater, one of the essays in Tolkien and Shakespeare (I can’t remember which and haven’t got the book with me) passingly claims that this comment by Pippin:
And I’m not used, Master Beregond, to waiting hungry on others while they eat. It is a sore trial for a hobbit, that. No doubt you will think I should feel the honour more deeply. But what is the good of such honour? Indeed what is the good even of food and drink under this creeping shadow?
is a reference to this speech by Falstaff in part I of Henry IV (Act V, scene i):
‘Tis not due yet: I would bee loath to pay him before his day. What neede I bee so forward with him, that call’s not on me? Well, ‘tis no matter, Honor prickes me on. But how if Honour pricke me off when I come on? How then? Can Honour set too a legge? No: or an arme? No: Or take away the greefe of a wound? No. Honour hath no skill in Surgerie, then? No. What is Honour? A word. What is that word Honour? Ayre: A trim reckoning. Who hath it? He that dy'de a Wednesday. Doth he feele it? No. Doth hee heare it? No. Is it insensible then? yea, to the dead. But wil it not liue with the liuing? No. Why? Detraction wil not suffer it, therfore Ile none of it. Honour is a meere Scutcheon, and so ends my Catechisme.
Do you agree?
11. Pippin says that he has waited at the door while Denethor “has debated with Gandalf and the Prince and other great persons.” What were they debating about?
12. Gandalf, says Pippin, “was disappointed … not to find Faramir here”. Why?
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Darkstone
Immortal
Sep 23 2008, 7:30pm
Post #2 of 11
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1. Compare Pippin’s question about Denethor (“And will he provide breakfast?”) to Merry’s comment back in Bree (“There is one crumb of comfort … and more than a crumb, I hope: we can have breakfast while we wait – and sit down to it. Let’s get hold of Nob!”)
“Hobbits!”
2. Pippin thinks Denethor is “like an old patient spider”. Why this reminder of Shelob?
They’re both ultimately being used by Sauron, Shelob guarding against Frodo, Denethor guarding against Isildur’s heir.
3. Denethor knows that “the board is barer” than Pippin would like.
More of Denethor’s faux austerity perhaps?
Has Beregond been reporting to Denethor on his conversations with Pippin?
I doubt it. Denethor seems a shrewd judge of men and Beregond later shows a lack of blind and unquestioning loyalty to Denethor. But obviously somebody did. Denethor would have a web of spies with him sitting Shelob-like at the center.
4. Denethor asks if Pippin can sing. What kind of songs does Denethor like?
Beautiful Boy by John Lennon
(Before you cross the street,
Take my hand,
Life is just what happens to you,
While your busy making other plans,
Beautiful,
Beautiful, beautiful,
Beautiful Boy,
Darling,
Darling,
Darling Boromir.)
Simple Man by Lynard Skynyrd
(And be a simple kind of man.
Be something you love and understand.
Be a simple kind of man.
Won't you do this for me son,
If you can?)
Fortunate Son by Credence Clearwater Revival
(Some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord,
And when you ask them, "How much should we give?"
Ooh, they only answer More! more! more! yoh,
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no Steward’s son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, one.
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no no no,
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no Steward’s son, no no no.)
A Boy Named Faramir by Johnny Cash
5. Denethor questions Gandalf about “the Rohirrim and their policies, and the position of Éomer, the king’s nephew”. What does Denethor wish to learn?
He no doubt believes Gandalf is going to slant everything to fit the Wizard’s agenda. He’s hoping to learn the true state of Rohan by gauging Gandalf’s “lies”.
6. Pippin receives a hauberk, helm, and surcoat, and surrenders his old clothes.
He’s probably also getting some fine livery, covered with Denethor’s insignias.
Does he also receive a shirt?
Doubtless a pourpoint or underdoublet.
Trousers?
Probably one- or two-piece hoes (precursor to modern “hose”) with a codpiece.
Socks?
That’s what the hoes are for unless they’re stirruped at the ankles, then yeah, he’d be wearing short hoes over his feet as well..
Shoes?
Hard to picture Pippin wearing thin soled poulaines, so I’ll assume boots.
He’d probably also get short braies (medieval “tighty whities”) to replace his knee-length braies (medieval boxers) so as to get a much better fit under his hoes. (Otherwise they tend to bunch up. Try fighting with that sort of situation down there. Ouch!)
Why does the helmet have “raven-wings”?
One might view it as a sort of private joke by Denethor. He is anticipating using Pippin as an unwitting spy. (The ravens Hugin (Thought) and Munin (Memory) would sit on Odin’s shoulders every evening and whisper to him the information that they’d gathered during the day.)
Ravens are symbols of war and battle. And a great war leader will have a "raven's banner". Then again, corpses are known as ravens' food. Maybe the latter is a comment on how long Pippin would last in a real fight.
7. Pippin “looked now … verily Ernil i Pheriannath, the Prince of the Halflings, that folk had called him”. But he’s dressed just like any other member of the Guard – what’s so princely about that?
It all depends on the livery. It’s like the difference in the uniforms between a second lieutenant and a four star general. Same basic cut, but the fruit salad makes all the difference.
8. Denethor describes Pippin’s duties are to “wait on me, bear errands, and talk to me”.
Sounds like what Tolkien’s signal officer duties would be at regimental headquarters.
Day’s end finds Pippin “tired out with idleness and waiting”.
That happens. And it would well mirror Tolkien’s own experience in military service. Long endless hours of frustrating idleness and mind-numbing waiting broken up by occasional brief episodes of utter confusion and sheer terror.
Has Pippin ever worked in his life?
Did Tolkien?
9. At Mythcon, Nicholas Birns claimed (tentatively) that there are no references to theater in the Middle-earth legendarium. I noticed one exception while preparing for this discussion: “In some other time and place Pippin might have been pleased with his new array, but he knew now that he was taking part in no play; he was in deadly earnest the servant of a grim master in the greatest peril” (emphasis added). Can you think of other exceptions?
Strider:
“Pippin subsided; but Sam was not daunted, and he still eyed Strider dubiously. 'How do we know you are the Strider that Gandalf speaks about?' he demanded. 'You never mentioned Gandalf, till this letter came out. You might be a play-acting spy, for all I can see, trying to get us to go with you.”
The Morannon:
“No choice was left them but to play their part to its end. Therefore Aragorn now set the host in such array as could best be contrived; and they were drawn up on two great hills of blasted stone and earth that orcs had piled in years of labour.”
Many Partings:
“'Hoom, well, that is fair enough,' said Treebeard; 'for to be sure Ents have played their part.’”
(Acutally there’s lots of references to “playing a part” throughout all of LOTR, most famously Gandalf's comment about Gollum.)
But I note Middle-earth also has “orchestras”:
“They contained instruments, small, but of perfect make and enchanting tones. Indeed, in one corner some of the young Tooks and Brandybucks, supposing Uncle Bilbo to have finished (since he had plainly said all that was necessary), now got up an impromptu orchestra, and began a merry dance-tune.”
All in all one might well expect theater houses for plays and music.
Then again, the references may not mean anything. After all, there really doesn't seem to be any express trains in Middle-earth. It's like when some readers objected about the supposed anachronism when a character referred to another character as "mesmerized" in an old issue of "Conan The Barbarian". Roy Thomas responded that the use of the term didn't really mean that Franz Mesmer had existed in the Hyborian Age, merely that the term existed in the English language that the story was presently being told in. Similarly, the phrase "played a part" may not necessarily mean that theater existed in Middle-earth.
What is the status of the performing arts in Middle-earth?
I’d say it’s alive and well.
10. Speaking of theater, one of the essays in Tolkien and Shakespeare (I can’t remember which and haven’t got the book with me) passingly claims that this comment by Pippin:
Quote
And I’m not used, Master Beregond, to waiting hungry on others while they eat. It is a sore trial for a hobbit, that. No doubt you will think I should feel the honour more deeply. But what is the good of such honour? Indeed what is the good even of food and drink under this creeping shadow?
is a reference to this speech by Falstaff in part I of Henry IV (Act V, scene i):
Quote
‘Tis not due yet: I would bee loath to pay him before his day. What neede I bee so forward with him, that call’s not on me? Well, ‘tis no matter, Honor prickes me on. But how if Honour pricke me off when I come on? How then? Can Honour set too a legge? No: or an arme? No: Or take away the greefe of a wound? No. Honour hath no skill in Surgerie, then? No. What is Honour? A word. What is that word Honour? Ayre: A trim reckoning. Who hath it? He that dy'de a Wednesday. Doth he feele it? No. Doth hee heare it? No. Is it insensible then? yea, to the dead. But wil it not liue with the liuing? No. Why? Detraction wil not suffer it, therfore Ile none of it. Honour is a meere Scutcheon, and so ends my Catechisme.
Do you agree?
Well, personally I don’t see enough parallels either in the passages or the contexts to make such a claim, but what do I know?
11. Pippin says that he has waited at the door while Denethor “has debated with Gandalf and the Prince and other great persons.” What were they debating about?
Doubtless round and round in circles with lots of recrimination on both sides and always ending up where they started in the first place.
12. Gandalf, says Pippin, “was disappointed … not to find Faramir here”. Why?
Denethor says it all: “'You found Boromir less apt to your hand, did you not?' he said softly."
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Sep 23 2008, 8:37pm
Post #3 of 11
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1. Compare Pippin’s question about Denethor (“And will he provide breakfast?”) to Merry’s comment back in Bree (“There is one crumb of comfort … and more than a crumb, I hope: we can have breakfast while we wait – and sit down to it. Let’s get hold of Nob!”)
Pippin is a connoisseur of breakfast. He finds the breakfasts in Minas Tirith sadly lacking. They are one of many small signs of the lack of warmth and honest comfort in that magnificent but hollow city (and the city in turn echoes the state of its ruler).
2. Pippin thinks Denethor is “like an old patient spider”. Why this reminder of Shelob?
At first glance, you'd say this image is just referrng to Denethor's stillness. But I think it also hints at the webs of information that he is in contact with as he sits in apparent isolation. It doesn't remind me of Shelob particularly, since she is not patient and passive as Denethor is.
3. Denethor knows that “the board is barer” than Pippin would like. Has Beregond been reporting to Denethor on his conversations with Pippin?
That doesn't sound likely. But no doubt even this kind of low-level continuous information comes to him via those webs he's in the centre of.
4. Denethor asks if Pippin can sing. What kind of songs does Denethor like?
He claims to want to hear the light-hearted songs of the Shire, although his reasons for his interest sound patronizing at best.
5. Denethor questions Gandalf about “the Rohirrim and their policies, and the position of Éomer, the king’s nephew”. What does Denethor wish to learn?
Pippin seems to be impressed that Denethor is interested in this level of detail at all. There is a possible personal relevance for Denethor, though, in his questions about Eomer, since Theoden, like Denethor, has lost his son and heir. Denethor has found it impossible to move on and transfer his trust to his second son. He must be interested to know what relations are like between Theoden and his nephew.
9. At Mythcon, Nicholas Birns claimed (tentatively) that there are no references to theater in the Middle-earth legendarium. I noticed one exception while preparing for this discussion: “In some other time and place Pippin might have been pleased with his new array, but he knew now that he was taking part in no play; he was in deadly earnest the servant of a grim master in the greatest peril” (emphasis added). Can you think of other exceptions? What is the status of the performing arts in Middle-earth?
I think both this and the "play-acting spy" reference that Darkstone mentions show that, at least at the level of the "translation", there's an implied knowledge of theatre. We know that there's a tradition of performing songs and telling tales in public, and dancing to accompany the songs as well, if Frodo's performance at the Prancing Pony is anything to go by. From there to dressing up and acting out parts is a small step. Formal theatre doesn't seem to fit with what we know of Middle-earth traditions, but something informal, perhaps like the commedia dell'arte, doesn't seem too much of a stretch.
12. Gandalf, says Pippin, “was disappointed … not to find Faramir here”. Why?
Gandalf already mentioned his impatience to see Faramir in the Minas Tirith chapter: "...The board is set, and the pieces are moving. One piece that I greatly desire to find is Faramir, now the heir of Denethor." And later that night, Pippin overhears Gandalf sighing: "When will Faramir return?" Clearly Gandalf urgently wants to speak to Faramir. Maybe it's just because Faramir is the only one he really trusts, but we readers also know that Faramir will bring news of Frodo, and so we are bound to wonder if Gandalf somehow senses this too.
Farewell, friends! I hear the call.
The ship’s beside the stony wall.
Foam is white and waves are grey;
beyond the sunset leads my way.
Bilbo's Last Song
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batik
Tol Eressea
Sep 24 2008, 2:54am
Post #4 of 11
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Hobbit sees breakfast as small, inadequate, and thin!
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1. Compare Pippin’s question about Denethor (“And will he provide breakfast?”) to Merry’s comment back in Bree (“There is one crumb of comfort … and more than a crumb, I hope: we can have breakfast while we wait – and sit down to it. Let’s get hold of Nob!”)
Did Pippin wake up thinking he was still at the Prancing Pony? His guest status ended yesterday. He is now in the service of...whereas Merry made his remark at the end of his stay at the inn.
2. Pippin thinks Denethor is “like an old patient spider”. Why this reminder of Shelob?
It's March 10th, right? Two days before we really meet Shelob (as far as dates go) but the day that Gollum went AWOL for a bit. The way we've read the story this might be a reminder but if we'd read in date-order this might be a hint.
3. Denethor knows that “the board is barer” than Pippin would like. Has Beregond been reporting to Denethor on his conversations with Pippin?
No doubt Beregond talked about his day with Pippin and anything said was passed on and up, easily reaching Denethor's ear.
4. Denethor asks if Pippin can sing. What kind of songs does Denethor like?
When Boromir comes marching home again Hurrah! Hurrah! or maybe
James Hetfield growling out " to secure peace is to prepare for war!"..."don't tread on me!"
5. Denethor questions Gandalf about “the Rohirrim and their policies, and the position of Éomer, the king’s nephew”. What does Denethor wish to learn?
All there is to know!
6. Pippin receives a hauberk, helm, and surcoat, and surrenders his old clothes. Does he also receive a shirt? Trousers? Socks? Shoes? Why does the helmet have “raven-wings”?
I wonder about the socks and shoes...but certainly hope he got something to cover the bottom half, otherwise he'd have gotten a reaction like the Emperor in his new clothes rather than the Prince of Halfings.
7. Pippin “looked now … verily Ernil i Pheriannath, the Prince of the Halflings, that folk had called him”. But he’s dressed just like any other member of the Guard – what’s so princely about that?
Black and silver, forged steel, silver star, broidered tree in silver. I would imagine the fabrics were "rich" in color and texture...a little more fancy than average daywear.
8. Denethor describes Pippin’s duties are to “wait on me, bear errands, and talk to me”. Day’s end finds Pippin “tired out with idleness and waiting”. Has Pippin ever worked in his life?
"Sometimes, as in the case of the Tooks of Great Smials,...lived in...mansions." "It is true that the Took famiy had long been pre-emininent..." I doubt Pippin had a *job*.
9. At Mythcon, Nicholas Birns claimed (tentatively) that there are no references to theater in the Middle-earth legendarium. I noticed one exception while preparing for this discussion: “In some other time and place Pippin might have been pleased with his new array, but he knew now that he was taking part in no play; he was in deadly earnest the servant of a grim master in the greatest peril” (emphasis added). Can you think of other exceptions? What is the status of the performing arts in Middle-earth?
Informal/casual? With all the songs and poetry we hear there's no shortage in any of the cultures concerning "arts". Luthien sang and danced; at The Party there were "songs, dances, music..."; Elves and Dwarves had hordes of songs and poems; the Men remembered their history through spoken words, too.
10. Speaking of theater, one of the essays in Tolkien and Shakespeare (I can’t remember which and haven’t got the book with me) passingly claims that this comment by Pippin:
And I’m not used, Master Beregond, to waiting hungry on others while they eat. It is a sore trial for a hobbit, that. No doubt you will think I should feel the honour more deeply. But what is the good of such honour? Indeed what is the good even of food and drink under this creeping shadow?
is a reference to this speech by Falstaff in part I of Henry IV (Act V, scene i):
‘Tis not due yet: I would bee loath to pay him before his day. What neede I bee so forward with him, that call’s not on me? Well, ‘tis no matter, Honor prickes me on. But how if Honour pricke me off when I come on? How then? Can Honour set too a legge? No: or an arme? No: Or take away the greefe of a wound? No. Honour hath no skill in Surgerie, then? No. What is Honour? A word. What is that word Honour? Ayre: A trim reckoning. Who hath it? He that dy'de a Wednesday. Doth he feele it? No. Doth hee heare it? No. Is it insensible then? yea, to the dead. But wil it not liue with the liuing? No. Why? Detraction wil not suffer it, therfore Ile none of it. Honour is a meere Scutcheon, and so ends my Catechisme.
Do you agree?
'Er...could be. Who originally questioned the value of *honor*?
11. Pippin says that he has waited at the door while Denethor “has debated with Gandalf and the Prince and other great persons.” What were they debating about?
Hmmm...that's above my paygrade.
12. Gandalf, says Pippin, “was disappointed … not to find Faramir here”. Why?
No Faramir, no strong ally at MT.
(This post was edited by batik on Sep 24 2008, 2:56am)
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sador
Half-elven
Sep 24 2008, 6:19am
Post #5 of 11
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1. Compare Pippin’s question about Denethor (“And will he provide breakfast?”) to Merry’s comment back in Bree (“There is one crumb of comfort … and more than a crumb, I hope: we can have breakfast while we wait – and sit down to it. Let’s get hold of Nob!”)
There's a far better one in 'The Uruk-hai' (quoting from memory, might be slightly wrong):
"Hullo, Pippin! So you've joined this little expedition too? And where do we get bed and breakfast?"
2. Pippin thinks Denethor is “like an old patient spider”. Why this reminder of Shelob?
It didn't remind me of Shelob at first - but note that when Faramir reports about Frodo's going to Cirith Ungol, Denethor does not seem schocked, or even surprised.
3. Denethor knows that “the board is barer” than Pippin would like. Has Beregond been reporting to Denethor on his conversations with Pippin?
It wouldn't surprise me if, in his obsession with the Dream's Riddle after Boromir left, Denethor looked up 'Halflings' in the ancient scrolls. There most have been some knowledge about them from Arnor - even by King Earnil himself? Denethor might very well know of Hobbits' extraordinary metabolism.
5. Denethor questions Gandalf about “the Rohirrim and their policies, and the position of Éomer, the king’s nephew”. What does Denethor wish to learn?
In 'The Riders of Rohan', Eomer declares himself to be the head of the pro-Gondor (or pro-honouring old oaths and alliances) party in Rohan. Having just lit the beacons, naturally he would be extremely interested in the prospects of them being answered.
6... Why does the helmet have “raven-wings”?
I beg to disagree with Darkstone.
His answer about Ravens as birds of bad omens might be correct in the Norse and Anglo-Saxon world (in which I can afford nothing to compete with his scholarship; and as far as I know he's right - as in Thorfinn Sigurdsson the Raven-feeder).
But in Tolkien's world - he is wrong. Balin makes a clear distinction between ravens and crows: Ravens are quite positive and useful fellows (such as Roac and his father Carc), while crows are the obnoxious spies, always waiting for war to embellish their bellies (see 'The Clouds Burst' in The Hobbit, and even Theoden wish for Saruman on a gibbet for the sport of his own crows). Crebain are crows, not raven. Actually, 'raven-dark' is a compliment for one's hair.
On a tangent - we've discussed before, that black is not necessarily a bad colour in Tolkien's world - although I suspect he would describe Pippin's helmet as 'sable' rather than black.
7. Pippin “looked now … verily Ernil i Pheriannath, the Prince of the Halflings, that folk had called him”. But he’s dressed just like any other member of the Guard – what’s so princely about that?
Any member of a foriegn race who was accepted to the guard would look princely in a supremacist Gondorian's eyes.
And he does have a princely blade from Cardolan.
9. At Mythcon, Nicholas Birns claimed (tentatively) that there are no references to theater in the Middle-earth legendarium. I noticed one exception while preparing for this discussion: “In some other time and place Pippin might have been pleased with his new array, but he knew now that he was taking part in no play; he was in deadly earnest the servant of a grim master in the greatest peril” (emphasis added). Can you think of other exceptions? What is the status of the performing arts in Middle-earth?
Luthien offered herself to Morgoth as a dancer.
The dwarves in 'An Unexpected Party' make music together, as a well-practiced band.
It seems the status of the preforming arts is rather better than in Victorian England (judging by Thackeray).
11. Pippin says that he has waited at the door while Denethor “has debated with Gandalf and the Prince and other great persons.” What were they debating about?
As I've noted on answer to question 2, Denethor seems to withold information from Gandalf, and persumably the rest of the Council.
And I've got no doubt the first item was the news from the Harad.
12. Gandalf, says Pippin, “was disappointed … not to find Faramir here”. Why?
With Gandalf, I'd suspect a premonition Faramir might know about Frodo.
Also, Faramir is the one to whom the Dream was originally sent. And Gandalf hasn't spoken to him since.
"Your father is old but not yet dotard" - Denethor
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Sep 24 2008, 4:22pm
Post #6 of 11
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It's March 10th, right? Two days before we really meet Shelob (as far as dates go) but the day that Gollum went AWOL for a bit.
So Denethor is like Shelob, sitting in the middle of his web and waiting for information to be transmitted to him. Perhaps Denethor has "sneaks" too, just like Shelob has her sneak.
Farewell, friends! I hear the call.
The ship’s beside the stony wall.
Foam is white and waves are grey;
beyond the sunset leads my way.
Bilbo's Last Song
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Sep 26 2008, 4:42am
Post #7 of 11
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Nice point about Pippin's "princely" sword. //
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Sep. 22-28 for "The Siege of Gondor".
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How to find old Reading Room discussions.
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Sep 26 2008, 9:47am
Post #9 of 11
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Board=table, board=chessboard?
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Do you think Tolkien meant us to connect these two uses of the word 'board'? I doubt it. The word is too common, and both these meanings are attached to it quite naturally without there being any real connection between them, other than the fact that a horizontal piece of wood is used in both cases!
The chessboard isn't any "barer" yet anyway - Gandalf continues his chess metaphor to say that Sauron "is about to open his full game. And pawns are likely to see as much of it as any..." So the chessboard is fully set, pawns and all, and the only "piece" that the Enemy has won so far is arguably Denethor (or perhaps it would be more accurate to say he's "en prise").
Farewell, friends! I hear the call.
The ship’s beside the stony wall.
Foam is white and waves are grey;
beyond the sunset leads my way.
Bilbo's Last Song
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squire
Half-elven
Sep 28 2008, 4:13pm
Post #10 of 11
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Check mate = Shah mat = The Shah (Steward?) is helpless
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'The board is set, and the pieces are moving. One piece that I greatly desire to find is Faramir, now the heir of Denethor. I do not think that he is in the City; but I have had no time to gather news. I must go. Pippin. I must go to this lords' council and learn what I can. But the Enemy has the move, and he is about to open his full game. And pawns are likely to see as much of it as any, Peregrin son of Paladin, soldier of Gondor. Sharpen your blade!'
This speech by Gandalf has always jolted me out of the story. It is an extended metaphor with the game of chess standing in for the game of war, and is perhaps so common in modern usage that we do not question it. Yet chess is distinctly a Eurasian game with deep historic roots in the early middle ages. Is it appropriate to imagine that chess, as such, with pawns and all, belongs in Middle-earth?
I think I know one standard answer that we might give: Tolkien has "translated" an equivalent Gondorian/Numenorean game into English, choosing chess as the best analog.
I sometimes get a little tired of that kind of explanation. Perhaps Tolkien just liked the imagery and said to heck with Middle-earth on this one?
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Sep 29 2008, 8:58pm
Post #11 of 11
(969 views)
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has "deep historic roots in the early middle ages". Middle-earth is our world, and many things that have come down to us have their "origins" in the time of LotR (even nursery rhymes like The Cow Jumped Over the Moon!) So what if you "think" you know the origins of chess, or of potatoes, or of all those old-wives' sayings? Here's evidence that they go back even further than you thought!
Farewell, friends! I hear the call.
The ship’s beside the stony wall.
Foam is white and waves are grey;
beyond the sunset leads my way.
Bilbo's Last Song
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