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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Some things that NEVER came to pass.
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OhioHobbit
Gondor

Mar 28 2007, 12:56am

Post #1 of 97 (1708 views)
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Some things that NEVER came to pass. Can't Post

In November of 1995 Peter Jackson had the idea of making a movie in the style of The Lord of the Rings. Fran asked why create his own story and not just do The Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit? This was the start of the evolution of the three The Lord of the Rings movies. Any creative endeavor is an evolution and the end product is better than any of the versions gone through along the way. Some of these are what Peter refers to as ‘often misguided Hollywood moments’ and some are the studio’s misguided Hollywood moments. The scary thing about the latter is that a studio will seldom see the error of its ways. Anyway, there was no guarantee that any of the original ideas of the writers or the studio would not end up in the movies, except for the talent of the film makers. Following are some of those ideas taken from Peter Jackson, A Film-Maker’s Journey.
(By the way, this is the short list.)

The original plan was to make The Hobbit as one movie and if that was successful, make The Lord of the Rings as two movies. When it was found that Saul Zaentz didn’t own all the rights to The Hobbit it was decided to just do the two movies of The Lord of the Rings.

Mirimax - Let’s make TWO movies:

Bob Weinstein of Mirimax:
“We’ve got to kill a hobbit! I don’t care which one; you can pick – I’m not telling you who it should be; you pick out who you want to kill, but we’ve really got to kill one of those hobbits!”

Gwhihir in Edoras:
After Gwhihir rescues Gandalf from Orthanc, “The eagle carries the wizard to Edoras – alighting in the marketplace, knocking over stalls with his wide wingspan.”

Sam lassoes a Fell Beast:
“…Sam uses Galadriel’s rope to lasso one of the talons of the Nazgul steed and hitch it to the ruined masonry. The beast and its rider flounder around, reducing the ancient structure to rubble…”

The Paths of the Dead :
“The walls of the tunnel suddenly start to undulate as a fleshy tumor-like texture spreads across them… Beneath their feet the tunnel floor heaves and breaths like diseased lungs!”

Aragorn and Arwen:
“Aragorn and Eowyn are asleep in each other’s arms. Loud knocking awakes them… Aragorn opens the door, pulling his robes around him. He awkwardly faces Arwen who flings her arms around his shoulders… Eowyn watches from the window…”

Aragorn and Arwen:
“…the second film was originally going to open with the couple bathing naked in the ‘crystal clear rock pools’ of the Glittering Caves, where they happen to be discovered by Legolas and Gimli who are taking a sight-seeing boat trip through the caves!
Also, in the early versions of the scripts, it is Arwen – rather than Eowyn – who rides out of Dunharrow disguised as a man and later defeats the Witch-king…”

Mirimax - Let’s make ONE movie:

“…the two-film structure contained too much information, too many characters and too many situations.
…cut the Battle of Helm’s deep; cut or re-work the role of Saruman (on a ‘use him or lose him’ principle) making him more effectively the villain of the piece, ‘Darth Varder to Sauron’s Emperor’; combine the realm of Rohan and Gondor and the cities of Edoras and Minas Tirith; fuse the characters of King Theoden with Denethor and that of Faramir with Eowyn) with a preference for the female character, who would then have become Boromir’s younger sister!); cut the Ringwraiths’ attack on Bree and hold them back for the assault at Weathertop; cut the events of Moria (abandoning then Cave-troll on the way); have the Ents prevent the Orc-kidnapping of Merry and Pippin and delay Gandalf’s return as the White Wizard.”

New Line – Let’s make THREE movies:

New Line wants Sean Connery:
“New Line were indicating to us that casting was going to be very critical and they really wanted somebody like Sean Connery in the role of Gandalf – thinking it was necessary to anchor the movies and keep their foreign distributors happy.”

New Line – the Watcher in the Water:
“We haven’t started work on the monster yet, so if we cut that out it would save us a bit of shooting time and it would save us having to build and animate the creature…”

Ending to The Fellowship of the Ring:
“The sequence had Frodo and Sam Paddling down the River Anduin in the Elven boat when an Uruk bursts up from under the water, lurches into the boat, grabbing at Frodo, who vainly tries to defend himself with the paddle. Seeing the Ring on the chain around Frodo’s neck, the Uruk seizes it and drags the struggling Frodo overboard and down to the bottom of the riverbed. Following a terrific underwater struggle, Frodo manages to kick himself free, is helped back into the boat by Sam and the boat is carried away by the Great River towards the second film!”

Arwen at Helm’s Deep:
“Within the context of having the Elves at Helm’s Deep, it seemed natural to have Arwen fighting alongside Aragorn and her people.”

Eowyn in the Glittering Caves:
“…Eowyn delivers a child born to Morwen, the mother of the two refugee children who carry the news of the Uruk-hai attack on Rohan to Edoras. Shortly after the birth of Morwen’s baby, the Uruks invade the caves, marauding and killing, while Eowyn – swiftly changing role from midwife to swordswoman – singlehandedly fights off the enemy with much slaughtering. As one of the Uruk-hai is about to seize, and presumably eat, the newborn child, Eowyn wields her sword and deftly decapitates the assailant!”

Aragorn fights Sauron:
“The designs created for Sauron at the pont when he is finally drawn out of Barad-dur to face the returning king were a ‘supercharged’ version of his appearance during his fight with Elendial as depicted in the film’s prologue.”

Frodo kills Gollum:
“When we originally shot the scene, Gollum bit off Frodo’s finger and Frodo pushed Gollum off the ledge into the fires below. It was straight-out murder, but at the time we were okay with it because because we felt everyone wanted Frodo to kill Gollum.”


SandWitch King
Rohan


Mar 28 2007, 1:13am

Post #2 of 97 (587 views)
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Lovely post! [In reply to] Can't Post

That all sounds familiar but how did you manage to have all the info at hand?

No wonder all writers want to direct: one still has to put up with a load of nonsense, but even if wearing two hats (writer and director), there is one under which one is not called a thief and then raped.


Messenjah
The Shire

Mar 28 2007, 1:14am

Post #3 of 97 (579 views)
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*shivers* [In reply to] Can't Post

It's amazing how terrible the LOTR could have been. ha


weaver
Half-elven

Mar 28 2007, 1:18am

Post #4 of 97 (618 views)
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now that's what I call a rough draft... [In reply to] Can't Post

Egad!

I haven't read the book -- did Jackson pitch some of these things only as a way to "sell" the story to standard studio-types? Please tell me he wasn't serious about all of these ideas, ultimately.

Though the Eowyn as Faramir storyline kind of intrigues me..and a lot of the "combined" ideas for a shorter number of films make sense, in a weird sort of way, and if you only want to do a story loosely based on the book.

So much for Frodo being a wimp -- murdering Gollum like that would really give him a different character arc...

Naked bathing scene?? Well, that has possibilities...

Uruks eating babies? Sounds like a throw back to Bad Taste. Giant eagles crashing and Sam roping a Nazgul? Please. I'll take the cascading skulls and Gimli the comic dwarf any day over that stuff.

Thanks for posting these -- very fun -- and scary!

Weaver


Patty
Immortal


Mar 28 2007, 1:48am

Post #5 of 97 (589 views)
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Good heavens what a blessing... [In reply to] Can't Post

any one, ONE, of these things could have spelled disaster. As it is, I'm cool with everything except "Arwen is dying."

At home, amongst the Mallorn trees.


stridersGIRL
Bree


Mar 28 2007, 2:10am

Post #6 of 97 (541 views)
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Well. [In reply to] Can't Post

That was quite a sketchy read, even if it never happened. Quite a sketchy read. :]





diedye
Grey Havens


Mar 28 2007, 2:49am

Post #7 of 97 (580 views)
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Why do I get the feeling that a lot of that... [In reply to] Can't Post

... was said tongue firmly planted in cheek?



Elberbeth
Tol Eressea


Mar 28 2007, 2:50pm

Post #8 of 97 (494 views)
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It's hard to believe that any one of these is not a joke./ [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."


hasufel
Rivendell


Mar 28 2007, 3:05pm

Post #9 of 97 (534 views)
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wow [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting read! Shocked

I am of the belief that to really do the trilogy justice, four movies should have been made.

That way they could have expanded ROTK to include all the Gondorian characters, including Elladan, Elrohir, Imrahil, Beregond, and the rangers from the north. These characters really would have helped show the unity of men on different fronts. Plus it would have helped tell the story of Gondor.

I also thought that the scourging of the shire should have been part of the movie as well. To me that part of the story really showed how far the hobbits have changed since the beginning. In the movie now, they are sitting in the green dragon as nameless ordinary folk. We should have been told that Sam was mayor and Merry was in charge of security etc...

They could have stopped FOTR after Gandalf fell. they could have stopped TTT before the battle for Helms Deep. The third movie could have stopped after the battle for Pellenor.


This is just my .02 cents. But I think they will have done the hobbit a disservice if they try to fit in one movie. There is too much story to tell.


Advising Elf
Rohan


Mar 28 2007, 3:25pm

Post #10 of 97 (561 views)
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Some of these were filmed! [In reply to] Can't Post

The last four were part of the story until post-production.

As for some of the others:

Gwaihir *did* take Gandalf to Edoras. Sounds pretty cool to me.

The skulls in the Paths of the Dead ROTK EE aren't any better than what's mentioned here.

Yahoo!Group with good stuff to download:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LOTRgoodies/


Morwen
Rohan


Mar 28 2007, 3:58pm

Post #11 of 97 (583 views)
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An Aragorn/Arwen nude bathing scene? [In reply to] Can't Post

Good grief. Dead hobbits, clumsy eagles, Rodeo Sam and Eowyn as slasher/midwife. I wasn't thrilled with the glowing green dead guys, but the undulating tunnel sounds even worse. And Frodo murdering Gollum! So much for pity and mercy.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

I wish you could have been there
When she opened up the door
And looked me in the face
Like she never did before
I felt about as welcome
As a Wal-Mart Superstore--John Prine


Elberbeth
Tol Eressea


Mar 28 2007, 4:17pm

Post #12 of 97 (515 views)
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Viggo already did that. With Diane Lane./ [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."


Morwen
Rohan


Mar 28 2007, 5:16pm

Post #13 of 97 (498 views)
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Was that in "A Walk on the Moon"? [In reply to] Can't Post

I need to put that on my Netflix list.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

I wish you could have been there
When she opened up the door
And looked me in the face
Like she never did before
I felt about as welcome
As a Wal-Mart Superstore--John Prine


Elberbeth
Tol Eressea


Mar 28 2007, 5:21pm

Post #14 of 97 (537 views)
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It was. And in spite of being in cold water [In reply to] Can't Post

it was HOT!!

"There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."


ladyoftheredwoods
Bree

Mar 28 2007, 6:03pm

Post #15 of 97 (499 views)
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Where can I buy PJ's biography? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Is it avaible in the US? Do I have to import it?


Idril Celebrindal
Tol Eressea


Mar 28 2007, 7:17pm

Post #16 of 97 (556 views)
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Let's get back to the bathing scenes ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wasn't there supposed to be one at Parth Galen with Legolas, Boromir, Aragorn and Frodo??? Wink


Anyhow, I thought the Arwen fight scenes were dumped when Liv Tyler proved to be inept at swordfighting.

With caffeine, all things are possible.

The pity of Bilbo will screw up the fate of many.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


Alcarcalime
Tol Eressea


Mar 28 2007, 7:58pm

Post #17 of 97 (525 views)
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OhioHobbit's wife here... [In reply to] Can't Post

I ordered PETER JACKSON A Film-maker's Journey from Amazon.com. They had a list of companies to get it from though them. I picked a company in the US and got it in less than 2 weeks. I had to pay more shipping than Amazon's, but it wasn't too bad. I had bought several books at the same time. Two were imported from England and paid for it all through Amazon.


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Mar 28 2007, 8:53pm

Post #18 of 97 (514 views)
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Some of them made it into the movie picture books [In reply to] Can't Post

that were released before the films. I remember Eowyn in the caves with blood all over her, and Arwen and Galadriel talking together.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Elberbeth
Tol Eressea


Mar 28 2007, 8:53pm

Post #19 of 97 (480 views)
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We had all hoped for that one, LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."


OhioHobbit
Gondor

Mar 28 2007, 10:55pm

Post #20 of 97 (462 views)
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See Alcarcalime's reply to ladyoftheredwoods below. (n/t) [In reply to] Can't Post

 


OhioHobbit
Gondor

Mar 28 2007, 10:59pm

Post #21 of 97 (469 views)
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Scary isn't it? (n/t) [In reply to] Can't Post

 


OhioHobbit
Gondor

Mar 28 2007, 11:03pm

Post #22 of 97 (494 views)
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You should read the book. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think any of there were "selling" strategies. And some of them were what the studio wanted. Cascading skulls don't seem so bad now do they?


OhioHobbit
Gondor

Mar 28 2007, 11:04pm

Post #23 of 97 (471 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a real problem with the Arwen dying thing.


OhioHobbit
Gondor

Mar 28 2007, 11:07pm

Post #24 of 97 (521 views)
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Peter was lucky to have gotten three movies... [In reply to] Can't Post

They were stunned when New Line said they should do three. The only other studio that even considered financing the films would only do one movie.


OhioHobbit
Gondor

Mar 28 2007, 11:08pm

Post #25 of 97 (456 views)
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Nope! (n/t) [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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