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Kimi
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 19 2008, 4:30am
Post #26 of 118
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We seem to be statistically over-represented here on TORn :-)
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Aug 19 2008, 4:41am
Post #27 of 118
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Today I happened to score an ENFJ. The first time I ever took this I was an INTP. So I have gone from "architect" to "teacher", seemingly. But I have always scored only one point to either side of the introver/extrovert scale. That's because I am inner-motivated, yet love people. Jung allowed for folks like me as "biverts", but these tests don't. As for the rest, I also tend to score close to the border on thinking and feeling; at different times in my life different emphases have served me better. I love intellectual stimuli, but I also love matters of the heart. In fact, I can get intensely emotional about the passions of the mind! Judging and probing also wobble in my tests, depending on which happen to serve me at the time. The problem is, I tend to appreciate all the different ways of approaching life, so it's hard to choose.
The one consistent is intuition over sensation. I am way extreme on intuition, as is my husband. Someone giving my husband and me the test together looked at the results and asked, "How do you two ever get to the store?"
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Aug 19 2008, 5:24am
Post #28 of 118
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In regards to people hardening into their types (instead of seesawing wildly like I've done my whole life) that only goes so far--until the midlife crisis. At least that is what I have seen in people, myself.
The various types constitute those traits which we work on hardest to perfect, the rest remaining undeveloped and hidden in the Shadow side of our psyche. The midlife crisis, by my theory, is when we suddenly wake up to the fact that there are all these undeveloped traits tired of waiting for their turn to grow up, and they come busting out like teenagers! Those who successfully navigate their midlife crisis become well-rounded old people--the wise sages and crones. Those who shy away from it become hardened into their types and not altogether pleasant people.
How the crisis affects various folks, as I've observed it, anyway.
Introverts suddenly feel lonely and throw themselves into the social whirl with puppyish naivete, alarming all who know them as nice, quiet people. They hurl themselves at humanity like a bumbling fan at a rock star. They get their heart stomped on a lot, they make public fools of themselves, and then they go back to their introverted lives with a deeper understanding of people in the collective, which makes them quietly wise. If they do not go through this, they turn into misanthropes.
Extroverts suddenly feel hollow and dedicate themselves to exploring their inner selves--usually in groups of other aging extroverts who have similarly discovered the interior world at the same time. They meditate together, psychobabble together, seek gurus to tell them about themselves, go into psychoanalysis, and generally act silly. Eventually they do find enough about themselves to fill in the blanks, and they even out again, go back to being extroverts, but with a new solidness and surety, socializing from a stronger foundation. If they do not go through this, they become the sort of annoying old people who always fuss about appearances at the expense of all else.
Intuitives suddenly realize that they've neglected their health nearly to the breaking point. They go on health kicks, generally prefering alternative medicine, trancelike exercise, and the most intuitive of physical regimens. They also suddenly develop a desire to build things, make things, do things with their hands, even if completely inept at it. Eventually they go back to being primarily intuitive, but with a saner regard for health and their material setting. If they do not go through this, they die young.
Sensation types suddenly feel spiritually or creatively empty--and then just as suddenly filled. Religious experience hits them like a lightningbolt, and they express their conversion with a fierceness that frightens all their friends. And/or they develop a passion for an art form without regard to just how bad they are at it (though practice sometimes eventually makes them better.) Eventually they go back to pragmatic lives, but with a richer dimension of insight and color, and if they had a faith experience, it eventually comes to where it quietly supports their day-to-day lives, seeing the sacred within the mundane. If they do not go through this, then old age becomes unbearably frightening for them with its slow erosion of the body.
Thinking types suddenly fall madly in love with somebody completely inappropriate--wildly, uncontrollably passionately in love. It might be platonic or sexual, friendly or parental or filial, but it will overwhelm them. They will go through all sorts of harrowing adventures, pulled along by someone who completely turns their world upside down. Or it might be more than one person. Eventually they will settle back into their rational world again, but with more feeling, more compassion, and with insights gained from their unlikely lovers/friends. If they do not, they will age into dry old bores.
Feeling types suddenly become impatient with all of the needs of people that they previously cultivated, no longer wanting to be needed, sick and tired of the human race. They will start to coldly edit their lives down, trying to apply reason to the most irrational things. They will want to catch up on all sorts of information-gathering that they've previously neglected. They might also discover a passion for solving puzzles. The biggest puzzle they want to solve is who they are, without other people to tell them who to be. Eventually they will mend bridges again, reacquainting themselves with their old friends and communities, but this time on a more balanced footing, with clearer boundaries. When they come back they will have more to give, having discovered themselves. If they do not go through this, their expression of love for the whole world will ring increasingly hollow, because there's nobody left inside to do the loving.
I've never been clear on the judging/probing types, so I haven't observed how they age. I sort of think of them as order/chaos, but I'm not sure if that's accurate. I tend to side with chaos as producing more creative results, but the test put me on the side of order simply because I have a strong sense of honor about commitments once I make them, even though I'm careful not to commit to anything I'm not sure I can live up to. The test asked, for instance, if I'm always punctual--it never asked how rarely I put myself in a position where I have to be punctual in the first place, nor how hard it is for me to manage it.
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Aug 19 2008, 5:33am
Post #29 of 118
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I came out a judger, but I'm not entirely clear on what that means. I plan everything--yet I plan for all contingencies, just to make more spontaneity possible. When I pack, I throw in a swimsuit just in case (however unlikely) someone invites me to swim, I throw in hiking shoes just in case I feel able to hike (even if I haven't for years) and a dance skirt just in case someone throws a party (even if I'm traveling to some serious, grim business.)
Just because I plan everything doesn't tell the rest of the story--how many plans I've thrown out the window in my lifetime. I won't if somebody else expects me at a certain place and time, but otherwise sure, I'll go for anything. I'll carefully pick out the best time to see a movie, and then veer off from the ticket booth at the last minute, hearing the trill of a distant flute, to find a bunch of raggle-taggle kids dancing on a streetcorner, and hang out with them instead. I plan precisely so that I can be spontaneous!
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Magpie
Immortal
Aug 19 2008, 10:31am
Post #30 of 118
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...people go from one type of personality to another as much as one test is just not as valid as another.
When I first took a personality test online, I thought the questions were vague and ambiguous. I might be able to answer yes to an answer... or no... but it really depended on circumstances. The results for me were close - I could see why they might put me in that type - but fundamentally wrong. Really wrong.
I sought out another online test. First off, there were probably easily quadruple the number of questions. Instead of vague, ambiguous ones, they were more specific... allowing me to consider the circumstances. The results of that test felt instantly right.
I don't doubt that our answers to the same test will be colored by how we're feeling at the moment. I might love working with others in a collaborative situation but if my current work environment is toxic and I have a co-worker sabotaging me, I might be feeling like working on my own for awhile and answer accordingly.
But I think most of these online tests are things to play with. Not necessarily highly accurate.
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Laerasėa
Tol Eressea
Aug 19 2008, 11:54am
Post #31 of 118
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Have to run in a couple minutes (literally, actually)-
In different books I've read (again- not too advanced books, so it could exclude various examples or something), it mostly says that people tend to grow more and more into their type as they get older. However- in times of stress, worry, crisis- people tend to act like their opposites. If you put me in charge of something, doing some sort of project that I wasn't prepared for and I absolutely had to finish, I would kind of shut people out, become as organized and practical as possible, and try to complete the project quickly. I'm not sure exactly what a midlife crisis entails (how long it lasts, why it happens, how serious it is, etc), but since it has the word "crisis" in it, do you think it'd be possible to throw that into this kind of category?
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Aug 19 2008, 3:59pm
Post #32 of 118
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...I know that my priorities have shifted considerably over my lifetime. Had you tested me in junior high school, I would have been introverted clean off the charts. That was before I fell in love with humanity. And I used to prize thinking far more than feelings, which I considered sloppy and irrelevant, yet I now value the wisdom of the heart's ability to leapfrog over reason to what deeply matters.
I believe in the option to change. I believe that we can try on many things in a lifetime. I know that I have.
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Aug 19 2008, 4:03pm
Post #33 of 118
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I think you might be onto something, Laerasea.
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If people briefly shift during stress, then they might shift on a more prolonged basis of several years during the midlife crisis. I think this crisis is important, to create the sort of well-rounded elder that the community needs. In terms of evolution, human beings are so complicated that they not only need healthy parents, but healthy grandparents, in order to survive long enough to pass on the family genes. The midlife crisis, successfully navigated, increases the odds that an elder's guidance will include a broad enough spectrum to make a difference in the grandchild's life.
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Laerasėa
Tol Eressea
Aug 19 2008, 9:38pm
Post #35 of 118
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Here's a link to a type description for you. It's just kind of a way to determine personalities...."I" stands for Introvert, "S" stands for Sensor, "T" stands for Thinker, and "J" stands for Judger. In a nutshell, you're more quiet, prefering not to talk in front of a bunch of people, you prefer details to big pictures, you make decisions based on facts and past experiences instead of whims and possibilites, and you are more organized and deadline-oriented.
Like some people have said on here- sometimes it takes more than one test to get your type right, and usually online ones are not the most reliable, so it's easier to mess up on those. But, usually, they're pretty good, fairly accurate. See if the description fits you, anyway!
Thanks for participating! 
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GlowWorm
Bree
Aug 19 2008, 10:55pm
Post #36 of 118
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its mostly right
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ElanorTX
Tol Eressea
Aug 19 2008, 11:21pm
Post #37 of 118
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I'm 'femine' INTP - only 0.25% of the total population
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INTPs are 1% of the population, and 3/4ths of those are male.
Examples: Jung himself, Thomas Jefferson, George Soros, Albert Einstein.
Let me hasten to say that I am nowhere near their league in actual performance.
Full MBTI testing usually produces stable scores for adults over long time periods. The strength of one's preference is key to interpretation. For instance, my N score (Intuition) on a full test is extreme; I choose no more than a couple of Ss. On the other hand, my Introvert has moved toward the middle. So eNTP might fit better than IsTP.
shortened description from website:
Architects are the master designers of all kinds of theoretical systems, including school curricula, corporate strategies, and new technologies. For Architects, the world exists primarily to be analyzed, understood, explained - and re-designed. What is important for Architects is that they grasp fundamental principles and natural laws, and that their designs are elegant, that is, efficient and coherent.
Architects are rare - maybe one percent of the population - and show the greatest precision in thought and speech of all the types. They tend to see distinctions and inconsistencies instantaneously, and can detect contradictions no matter when or where they were made. Architects regard all discussions as a search for understanding, which can make communication with them an uncomfortable experience for many.
Insatiably curious, Architects will listen to amateurs if their ideas are useful, and will ignore the experts if theirs are not. Authority derived from office, credential, or celebrity does not impress them. Architects are interested only in what make sense, and thus only statements that are consistent and coherent carry any weight with them.
Architects often seem difficult to know. They are inclined to be shy except with close friends, and their reserve is difficult to penetrate. Architects also become obsessed with analysis [the paralysis of analysis], and this can seem to shut others out. Once caught up in a thought process, Architects close off and persevere until they comprehend the issue in all its complexity. [The absent-minded professor stereotype is an INTP.]
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Annael
Immortal
Aug 19 2008, 11:32pm
Post #38 of 118
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I like another definition of INFJ: "The Mystic."
INFJs are future oriented, and direct their insight and inspiration toward the understanding of themselves and thereby human nature. Their work mirrors their integrity, and it needs to reflect their inner ideals. Solitude and an opportunity to concentrate thoroughly on what counts most is important to them. INFJs prefer to quietly exert their influence. They have deeply felt compassion, and they desire harmony with others. INFJs understand the complexities existing within people and among them. They are at their best concentrating on their ideas, ideals, and inspirations.
I would like to think that describes me.
This definitely does:
INFJs are not easily led. These are the people that you can rarely fool any of the time. Though affable and sympathetic to most, INFJs are selective about their friends. Such a friendship is a symbiotic bond that transcends mere words. INFJs have a knack for fluency in language and facility in communication. In addition, nonverbal sensitivity enables the INFJ to know and be known by others intimately. Writing, counseling, public service and even politics are areas where INFJs frequently find their niche.
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Annael
Immortal
Aug 19 2008, 11:40pm
Post #39 of 118
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people are always trying to get me to take charge of things. Because I'm organized and work well with other people, I seem like I'd be a good leader, I guess. But I hate being the one in charge. Hate, hate, HATE it! I don't inspire people. That's what leaders need to be able to do.
I'm very happy being the power behind the throne, though.
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Annael
Immortal
Aug 19 2008, 11:45pm
Post #40 of 118
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my Jungian counselor would agree
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she says that by midlife we should be learning how to pull on those other abilities - to be Sensing as well as iNtuition, Judging as well as Perceptive, etc. I know I come a lot closer to the middle on all of the categories now than I did 30 years ago - and I went from E to I about 10 years ago.
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Annael
Immortal
Aug 19 2008, 11:49pm
Post #41 of 118
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as I understand it, judging refers to discernment - the ability to choose and discard the irrelevant. "Perceptives" are so open to everything, it's sometimes hard for them to leave something out or make decisions. When we took this test at a place I used to work, the Perceptives were the people who included all kinds of fun facts in their writing - which the Judging editors then had to prune out, saying "sorry, that's not exactly relevant to the point."
The guy who ran the workshop, by the way, shared with us the story of the time he lost control of a group he was working with when he said "well, that all depends on your J-ness or your P-ness."
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 20 2008, 12:43am
Post #43 of 118
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Especially the end bit:
How can I let the introvert in my life know that I support him and respect his choice? First, recognize that it's not a choice. It's not a lifestyle. It's an orientation.
Second, when you see an introvert lost in thought, don't say "What's the matter?" or "Are you all right?"
Third, don't say anything else, either.
So, so true. :)
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Magpie
Immortal
Aug 20 2008, 3:03am
Post #44 of 118
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those are great descriptions too.
work mirrors integrity (I use that word a lot in a non moral sense)
concentrate on what counts most
not easily led (I'll refuse to do something just because it's expected of me - I'm a big pain in team building exercises - or because everybody else is)
selective about friends (I often say, 90% of the world are morons and the other 10% get to be my friends. But a friend made is one I'm loyal to till the end.)
transcends mere words (that's when I know I'm feeling the deepest level... when I can't express it in words)
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Aug 20 2008, 3:22am
Post #45 of 118
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I understand better now. It still seems to me that I'm both at different times.
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teddiwen
The Shire
Aug 20 2008, 3:44am
Post #46 of 118
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Never before have I seen such a lot of INFJs.... surprising and yet NOT surprised at all to see a lot of I & J combos.
Wonder what Tolkien would have been.. well... was
people are always trying to get me to take charge of things. Because I'm organized and work well with other people, I seem like I'd be a good leader, I guess. But I hate being the one in charge. Hate, hate, HATE it! I don't inspire people. That's what leaders need to be able to do.
I'm very happy being the power behind the throne, though.
So true for me. I hate any form of spotlight.
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Magpie
Immortal
Aug 20 2008, 3:50am
Post #47 of 118
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The interesting thing about us iNFj
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is that we make up 2% of the population.
In this poll (which only represents the people who chose to vote), we make up 28%.
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Arwen's daughter
Half-elven
Aug 20 2008, 3:55am
Post #48 of 118
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We INTJs make up 1% of the population as well and are statistically over-represented here. Lots of rare personality types here. Must be one of the reasons we all stay.
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orcbane
Gondor
Aug 20 2008, 4:06am
Post #49 of 118
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INFJ
This is beginning to feel like the Mos Eisley Cantina of idealists.
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teddiwen
The Shire
Aug 20 2008, 4:11am
Post #50 of 118
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but really do we need the damn reply titles
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This is beginning to feel like the Mos Eisley Cantina of idealists.
you made me snort my Snapple water down wrong.
But really.. now I soooo know why certain types just don't get/like LOTR...
For the married/partnered folks:
Whats your DP?
I am married to an ESFP. What were we thinking??????
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