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Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2008, 2:48am

Post #126 of 152 (3333 views)
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Give me both... [In reply to] Can't Post

I am a die-hard film fan to the max, however, I think the books are best (in most case, but especially here). There is so much depth in the books that can't possibly be conveyed in a film though PJ & team managed miraculously to capture a lot of it.

The thing about reading the books is that more is revealed each time I read it. I found it takes at least 3 reads absorb so much of the detail, then greater depth starts to reveal itself. The marvelous aspect of Tolkien's writing is that the reader is free to take meaning the books and/or bring meaning to as he or she partakes in the magic of it. As I grow and change and experience life in new and varied ways, I experience the books in new and marvelous ways.


Quote
...I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author. — J.R.R. Tolkien, Forward to FotR, p. xv


It is no small thing that hundreds of people re-read the books every year.

The movies are a way of experiencing the story in a whole new way. My main quibble with the films is the changes made to the character of characters. They were all written the way they were for a reason. Outside of that, the films brought a certain joy to my life that is additional to the books and enhances my experience of the books. — I would never want to give them up. However, if I had to choose only one, it would be the books.

Additionally: I love CD Audio books. There are many advantages... I can listen while doing other things, mainly. Also, listening to a written work brings is different senses and accesses the brain & heart in a different way. And, I am also a slow reader, so I can move steadily forward through the story.






**Tribute: Lt. J.G. Robert Sterling, WWII Pilot MIA, by Gramma & DoN**
Art Gallery Revised, Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta

(This post was edited by Silverlode on Jul 10 2008, 8:27am)


Aerin
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2008, 3:09am

Post #127 of 152 (3340 views)
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It all fits. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm no expert, but it really does sound like you have been dealing with an actual problem when it comes to reading, not just a matter of taste, preference, or interest.

Dyslexia has nothing at all to do with intelligence, and what you describe about your experiences in school all fit very well. Reading out loud is especially difficult for people with dyslexia. Also, dyslexia is thought to be very closely related to memory, especially the short-term memory involved in processing written words and sentences and translating them into sounds. Children with dyslexia often are mistakenly thought to be slow learners or lazy, but, Ironically, these students often work much harder than their peers in order to succeed in school. Not being interested in the subject matter makes it harder for anyone to read (I admit that some subjects definitely make me glaze over!), but having dyslexia makes lack of interest even more of a problem.

People with dyslexia often are described as thinking more in visual images and feelings than in words. When children are diagnosed as having dyslexia, educators make a special effort to use forms of learning that don't rely so heavily on reading, such as visual and auditory media. If you really have been living with undiagnosed dyslexia, your academic accomplishments are all the more impressive.


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2008, 4:37am

Post #128 of 152 (3323 views)
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I get having disorders.. [In reply to] Can't Post

...that make reading difficult... I have them too. They are different from yours.

How it is with me while reading, is: it's a slow and arduous process, I bog down, have to re-read sentences & paragraphs and even whole pages & sections over and over before I absorb any of it. Descriptive areas are often quite tedious, even though I am quite a visual person, sometimes some writers descriptions don't set of images in my head... or words I don't know will stop the whole visualization process.

And, if there is an enormous amount of detail, I must take notes... copious notes and graphs & diagrams. I need to see the patterns and relationships emerge before I "get it". I certainly did that with LotR, the second & third times I read it... had a computer by then.

The first reading, I amazed myself that I didn't take notes. I enjoyed the story, but I couldn't tell one character from another or remember the places or what happened n them... I have very bad memory and absorption ability.

All the same, making all those charts & list deeply enhanced my experience. I discovered so much more than I would have otherwise... through the patterns that emerged.

When the films came out, I saw even more through them, even through the changes & mistakes made.

Interestingly enough, even with my difficulty in reading, I can't get enough of reading analysis books (on Tolkien & Rowling).

To my experience of the books... there is so much there that is left out of the films that I would never trade the movies for the books. But, I did have to give up the Reading Room discussion board. It takes me too long to read and to write... that it was taking over my life.

When you shared how your issues interfered... I get that. One thing that works for me is Audio books. I have another friend that has similar issues as me, and she also enjoys audio books over reading, I find them a godsend even though they are so expensive. They are available second hand.

Besides my disabilities, I am also strongly kinesthetic and more of a right brain artistic type as well. Office work throws me through a loop. The receptionist at my Doctors office can't get why I have trouble keeping track of my appointments. She, and others, are always offering me advice and suggestions and tips... and saying things like: "why can't you just _____ (fill in the blank)!?!" . . . as well as an assortment of other such ready made, very unhelpful comments.

No amount of writing it down seems to help, it does to a point, but I loose track of the paper, to the book of forget to transfer from appointment cards to calendar. It's a vicious circle of elusive pieces of paper, notes, cards, calendars, note-pads, etc., that I never seem to be able to keep straight. I could never work in an office in a million years... I have been fired from more jobs than I can count because I just don't function at that capacity. All that left-brain stuff throws me off. I agree with Aerin about the connection between the hemispheres of the brain, but my connections seem to be faulty.

So, I totally get what you are saying.

One comment: I think people would respond better to you comments if you didn't imply word 'better' which suggests something in your experience that doesn't exist. I had to stop reading several of you posts because you just had not read the books so I lost faith in anything you had to say by way of comparison. A more open approach might have drawn less ire. I think you were successful in you opening sentence... Quote: "What did you get more enjoyment out of, LOTR Books or Movie."

I hope you find our way to the books if only the CD version... they are great BTW... An actor usually reads on audio books and acts out all of the parts in voice. I play them when I am doing my artwork. I have: LotR, Silmarillion, & Harry Potter 3-7. I have a stereo that plays up to 60 CDs which this me perfectly.


PS...
I love movies and gravitate to them for the same reason you do. I have loved them since I could walk & talk... I was a weird kid that didn't like cartoons that much... I always looked for what movies were playing on some oher channel. Today I can't get enough of film, all kinds of film, am an avid classic film fan as well.




**Tribute: Lt. J.G. Robert Sterling, WWII Pilot MIA, by Gramma & DoN**
Art Gallery Revised, Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta

(This post was edited by Daughter of Nienna on Jul 10 2008, 4:46am)


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor

Jul 10 2008, 4:39am

Post #129 of 152 (3326 views)
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Ahhh...I was wondering if it was something like that. [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the students I tutored through college courses was an adult who'd never been diagnosed with a learning disability until she started classes there. Her problem is reading comprehension, and her required courses would have been a nightmare without me around to translate all that ridiculously bloated text into simple soundbites. I would summarize half a page of that garbage in three sentences or less, and she could easily comprehend that! I also taught her some tricks to use on her own.
She made the Dean's List, joined the Honor Society, and I watched her cross the stage in her cap and gown. *sniff*

She stopped letting relatives tell her she wasn't smart enough to go to college, and shut them up with her Key pin if they attempted it later. She has a lot more confidence in herself and in her improved reading skills now.
Strangely though, she'd never hated reading. She didn't like having to try to read certain things, of course, but I'd rather have root canal than be forced to read some things myself.
I hate to admit it, but I haven't read the Harry Potter series yet...and have to borrow the books from her! =)

(This post was edited by Eowyn of Penns Woods on Jul 10 2008, 4:47am)


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Jul 10 2008, 4:45am

Post #130 of 152 (3330 views)
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So true! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm constantly amazed what I am learning about others, too.

When I never have anything to say about audiobooks, soundtracks or the voice of Smaug, now you know why Wink

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Jul 10 2008, 4:58am

Post #131 of 152 (3321 views)
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Audiobooks [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
One thing that works for me is Audio books. I have another friend that has similar issues as me, and she also enjoys audio books over reading, I find them a godsend even though they are so expensive. They are available second hand.



Do you have a public library somewhere near? I don't know about Hawaii, of course, but here in Germany these public libraries don't offer books only, but DVD, audiobooks and the like as well, particularly for novels. (Am working in one myself). Considering the prices (they *are* high), it is a rather cheap way to get audiobooks, at least if one doesn't want to keep them. It might be worth investigating.

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor

Jul 10 2008, 5:09am

Post #132 of 152 (3323 views)
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Ha! You did better than me! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have not yet managed to make it through Wuthering Heights---book or movie!
That is what I call torture. Can't reach through the book or screen to choke or smack somebody, and they can't hear me saying nasty things about them, either. No satisfaction there! Besides, other people don't like it if you mumble angry things while they're trying to watch the movie. And they don't always simply ask you to leave the room. ;)

Different strokes, I guess. Congrats to you for actually being able to appreciate that one!

(This post was edited by Eowyn of Penns Woods on Jul 10 2008, 5:10am)


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2008, 5:27am

Post #133 of 152 (3317 views)
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Yes, and... [In reply to] Can't Post

...being a fellow film lover, I have obsrved that they are a visual medium, obvious, and kinesthetic as well.
(movement, touch, feel)





**Tribute: Lt. J.G. Robert Sterling, WWII Pilot MIA, by Gramma & DoN**
Art Gallery Revised, Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2008, 6:00am

Post #134 of 152 (3313 views)
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Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I knew that in the back of my mind, but inconveniently forgot it Wink


thanks for the reminder!




**Tribute: Lt. J.G. Robert Sterling, WWII Pilot MIA, by Gramma & DoN**
Art Gallery Revised, Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2008, 6:05am

Post #135 of 152 (3315 views)
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different processing styles [In reply to] Can't Post

Something that I found helpful is discovereing where my strengths lie... how I process information the most effectively...I think you have some good understanding already... and it never hurts to get more information...I was lucky to have one of my art teachers understand different processing styles. How one takes in information, porcesses, then outputs can all be different as well.

I am strong kinesthetic • next visual • last auditory / aural


here are some links:...


OVERVIEW:

Visual, Auditory, Kinesthetic Learners
http://school.familyeducation.com/...g-methods/38519.html

Overview of Learning Styles:
http://www.learning-styles-online.com/overview/
The learning styles reviewed are:
Visual (spatial). You prefer using pictures, images, and spatial understanding.
Aural (auditory-musical). You prefer using sound and music.
Verbal (linguistic). You prefer using words, both in speech and writing.
Physical (kinesthetic). You prefer using your body, hands and sense of touch.
Logical (mathematical). You prefer using logic, reasoning and systems.
Social (interpersonal). You prefer to learn in groups or with other people.
Solitary (intrapersonal). You prefer to work alone and use self-study.


KINESTHETIC LEARNING:

Tactile/Kinesthetic Learning
http://volcano.und.edu/.../msh/llc/is/tkl.html

The physical (bodily-kinesthetic) learning style
http://www.learning-styles-online.com/...-bodily-kinesthetic/

A Kinesthetic Learner Learns Best By:
http://www.cuyamaca.edu/...sps/resourceskin.asp

Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence
http://www.edwebproject.org/edref.mi.th2.html

Proprioception vs. kinesthesia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinesthetic

Kinesthetic Learning - wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/...Kinesthetic_learning

Tactile-Kinesthesis - art by Charles Csuri, 1998
http://www.csuri.com/.../digital-art-3_0.php



OTHER LEARNNG STYLES:

Visual learning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_learning

Spatial-temporal reasoning
http://en.wikipedia.org/...l-temporal_reasoning






**Tribute: Lt. J.G. Robert Sterling, WWII Pilot MIA, by Gramma & DoN**
Art Gallery Revised, Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


Huan71
Lorien

Jul 10 2008, 9:53am

Post #136 of 152 (3306 views)
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I thought it was just me! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...
I couldn't tell one character from another or remember the places or what happened n them... I have very bad memory and absorption ability.
Office work throws me through a loop. The receptionist at my Doctors office can't get why I have trouble keeping track of my appointments. She, and others, are always offering me advice and suggestions and tips... and saying things like: "why can't you just _____ (fill in the blank)!?!" . . . as well as an assortment of other such ready made, very unhelpful comments.
No amount of writing it down seems to help, it does to a point, but I loose track of the paper, to the book of forget to transfer from appointment cards to calendar. It's a vicious circle of elusive pieces of paper, notes, cards, calendars, note-pads, etc., that I never seem to be able to keep straight. I could never work in an office in a million years... I have been fired from more jobs than I can count because I just don't function at that capacity. All that left-brain stuff throws me off.


You have just described *me* perfectly !! lol
I've always thought i was, i don't know...thick or something.
In most ways my memory is REALLY bad. My wife hates it... I once read that women are attracted to a good memory.
("I can remember the dress you were wearing when....." lol)
Well, that's me out then.
I find it VERY hard to keep track of characters, their names, what they look like etc in books. That's the thing with films i guess. I remember by the faces who every one is and then tie them together and put them in their places from there.
I can follow story lines very well. (book or film.). This to this to this etc. I could follow multiple plot lines in several books no problem. And, though my wife has a higher IQ (a lot!) and a much better memory, she has gotten lost a few times with complex film plots!
As for appointments, cards, numbers..... elusive bits of paper......
Ditto ! I'm the same. Fortunately i've tended to do manual type work. (easier what with me being a bloke). I run a machine in a factory and the skills i need to do my job i've got....well, at the moment.
I'll explain. When something goes wrong i stick my head in, use my hands to feel stuff...i kinda get an intuitive feel or connection with the thing then work it out from there. Now, with health and safety laws and computer technology we're not allowed near it. Its all looking from a distance and sorting things out from a screen.
My minds starting to feel *sticky*. Kinda like cycling into the wind.
Does any of that make sense.
Maybe there's a sort of learning that would have been better for me than my traditional schooling...but i got poor to average grades. But people who know me see me as being clever.
What do you think. Your messages seem to imply you know something of this stuff?
By the way, how do you create art whilst listening to a book? when i draw i prefer to go into a right hemisphere semi trance. like everything else goes into the background.
Not that i'm very good mind!! lol (I don't practice enough!)

My, isn't this *group therapy* thread turning out to be most cathartic!!
C'm on....Group hug everyone!


Huan71
Lorien

Jul 10 2008, 10:45am

Post #137 of 152 (3297 views)
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I'm jealous [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To


of meeting Terry Pratchett at a book signing in Denver last spring, just before his announcement. He was delightful. I haven't seen him in his TV films, though. It is very, very sad about his illness, but I can't help thinking that somehow Death won't get the best of him.


You were so lucky to meet him. He's always come across as a thoroughly decent bloke.
He seemed to take news of his illness with typically Pratchet-ian (have i got that word right?) Humour!
I believe he's been doing some work raising awareness and raising money...


sphdle1
Gondor


Jul 10 2008, 12:38pm

Post #138 of 152 (3310 views)
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I have the solution [In reply to] Can't Post

"The receptionist at my Doctors office can't get why I have trouble keeping track of my appointments. She, and others, are always offering me advice and suggestions and tips... and saying things like: "why can't you just _____ (fill in the blank)!?!" . . . as well as an assortment of other such ready made, very unhelpful comments."

I'll fill in the blank for you, as I have the same issue (or used to). Microsoft Outlook. I don't do anything unless it's in my Outlook calendar, and I make sure every appointment has a 4-8hr reminder, of which pops up, and I snooze it until 1hr before my meeting (or whatever), and then snooze it for 10min before. It gets me there on time.


sphdle1
Gondor


Jul 10 2008, 12:49pm

Post #139 of 152 (3355 views)
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maybe that explains why [In reply to] Can't Post

if I meet someone in for the first time, the moment they say their name, it is gone from my memory, as if I processed it through ear, and my brain threw it in the bit bucket instead sending it to my memory.


Lunamoth
Rohan


Jul 10 2008, 1:46pm

Post #140 of 152 (3321 views)
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:) [In reply to] Can't Post

You can use it all you like. I cannot claim to have made it; it found its way to me via many iterations of other people passing it around, so I can't even tell you who authored it. (although there's someone on Zazzle selling t-shirts)

The medium is the message! Evil

(This post was edited by Altaira on Jul 12 2008, 3:46pm)


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Jul 10 2008, 7:21pm

Post #141 of 152 (3296 views)
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The Internet really is amazing. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've often thought that TORn is a lot like what I imagine heaven to be, souls speaking to souls. We can reveal as much or as little as we like about the things that have sometimes divided people, like race, gender, nationality, age, looks, physical ability, etc. And without knowing those things right away, we can form opinions of people based just on their words. It's one of the things I love best about this place.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2008, 7:39pm

Post #142 of 152 (3314 views)
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No answers, exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

... I am just a person who struggles along with this while the rest of the world shakes their head. I am no expert.

I have been lucky enough to have some tools placed before me... But I feel like I still need more tools. I think I have ADD. I may have other things... who knows... its hard to get a diagnosis unless you pay big bucks for it. It helped enormously when my art teacher pointed me in the direction that I might be strongly Kinesthetic in how I process things. That helped al lot wiht seeing that I could find other ways of doing things that work better for me.

Quote: "My minds starting to feel *sticky*. Kinda like cycling into the wind.
Does any of that make sense." — That makes perfect sense, to me, at least. I call it 'foggy'. Not sure what that is.

There are a lot of different kinds issues to sort through. I find that the more information i seek & find, the more in charge If them I are, The ones that apply to me that is.

branching out a bit...

With me, I had a traumatic childhood and started recovery for that over 20 years ago through 12 step meetings, therapy, and definitely tons of books & audio tapes starting in the late eighties.The recovery from codependency & dysfunctional family movement made a big splurge around them... then there was a huge right-wing-Limbaugh backlash. This made me angy because it meant that a lot of people would be missing out on help that really worked.

Recovery also involves procesing old stored up emotions, changing the old programming, recognizing and changing behavioral patterns and mmore. The most important tool I learned there was self-parenting. There is tons of information & resources on all of that. It totally changed my life and brought miricles to it.

Through that process I found a support system. I also found other people with similar issues. Because of the dysfuntioanl family stuff, I discovered that I have a mild form of disassociative disorder & PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). That basically means that I am very spacey. I have a hard time being 'present' a lot of the time. Like I'll be in a converstation and miss segments of what someone is saying. Or, when I am reading, I'l be reading the wrods, but my mind is somewhere else. I have a hard time getting anywhere on time. Sometimes I am great, other times I totally blow it. The PTSD means that I jump high to sudden loud noises and react to certain triggers and there is a crossover-spaceyness.

The one thing I can reccommend to keep searching for information and resources. You can find what fits for you and discover tools of your own that work for you. A diagnosis is not a sentence but a terrific starting point. "Nothing changes until you make it real" (Terry Kellogg). What that means is that until you cna give soemthign a name and know what it is, there is not anything you can do about it. You remain at its mercy, a puppet to it. Discovering what the issue is and having a name for it is very empowering. But, ou can't stop there. Thatt is only step one. Next is to get more and deeper information, then find resources fo rhelp and suport adn learnn new tools.

I am opposed to drugs for myself. I have a low tolerance for medication to begin with, but I find medication just prolongs the problem, masks it so that you don't have access to emotions that are import antpart of healing, growth and change. It's just another way of becomig a puppet. There are circumstances nad situations that are exceptions and its different for everyone. Sitll, I think it should be only temporary. I only say this cuz drugs are handed out far too easily especially for depression & ADHD for kids. The recovery tools I mentioned above, especially self-parenting, are what pulled me out of a life-long dibitating case of depression.

They didn't help with everyting though. The memory issue and information processing issure are separate. But the first thign that finding out what something is gives me is that it breaks me free from shame: I no longer feel innately deffective. And it gives me a sense freedom and hope. At long last I know what that is and ther is someting I can do about it.

Places to start... bookstores, internet, library, therapist, support groups, places to pick up tools. The hing wiht al teh different issues to choose from, is that there is a certain cossover in syyptoms. The spaceyness thing and the forgetful thing, are all part of several different issues.

That is why I say "keep searching". There is always more help and tools out ther to find. I am sure that over the course of time, you have picked-up certain tools on your own. Most of us do.Lots of luck on your journey.


Things to look up:
PTSD
ADD / ADHD
Disassociative Disorder
ACoA (ACA) syndrome
Codepenency
Dysfunctional Family recovery
Learning styles: Kinesthetic, Visual, etc.
Terry Kellogg
Pia Melody
John Bradshaw
Recovery

just as a starting point... one thing leads to the next... you will find things that fit you. I listed these only because they are what I know most about adn have the most experience with. Unlike 10 years ago... there is a lot more marketing stuff on the internet for Recovery... so you need to watch the mine field, and explore only sites that have real information, symtpom lists and resourses for help... Books & groups are really where its at. Internet is only useful for a starting point for basic & brief info, sort of as finding sign posts for where else to look.

It's a wonderous journey
DoN




**Tribute: Lt. J.G. Robert Sterling, WWII Pilot MIA, by Gramma & DoN**
Art Gallery Revised, Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2008, 7:41pm

Post #143 of 152 (3284 views)
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Great! . . . [In reply to] Can't Post

now if I can only remember to transfer my dates to the software... its a viscious cycle. Unsure

I can only Laugh





**Tribute: Lt. J.G. Robert Sterling, WWII Pilot MIA, by Gramma & DoN**
Art Gallery Revised, Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Jul 10 2008, 8:04pm

Post #144 of 152 (3322 views)
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Really, it is! [In reply to] Can't Post

We would never have been able to meet and talk without the internet, and I think our lives are the richer for it.
What I find so great at TORn is not only the possibility to talk with so many like-minded people about LotR, but to do it with people from all over the world. And it is nice that people aren't judged only for their looks or nationality or whatever, but only for their opinions, which tell so much more about them and are all that counts, IMO.
(And on a personal note, when I joined my first message board back in 2002, I was glad that I didn't have to admit my hearing disability right away; I was a bit anxious to be rejected outright if they knew.)

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Jul 10 2008, 8:34pm

Post #145 of 152 (3292 views)
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Wow. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
(And on a personal note, when I joined my first message board back in 2002, I was glad that I didn't have to admit my hearing disability right away; I was a bit anxious to be rejected outright if they knew.)


I'm a little shocked that that passed through your mind. Does that happen in real life? If so, it saddens me. I found the information about your hearing disability interesting, but not in any way a negative reflection on you. But how freeing the Internet is for people with those kinds of concerns (which I suppose means all of us, to some extent.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2008, 8:44pm

Post #146 of 152 (3275 views)
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art whilst listening [In reply to] Can't Post

Forgot to answer your question...


Quote
By the way, how do you create art whilst listening to a book? when i draw i prefer to go into a right hemisphere semi trance. like everything else goes into the background.
Not that i'm very good mind!! lol (I don't practice enough!)


There are different stafes of doing art. In the dreaming, imagining, planning figuring, measuring, alingning stages... I have to have all sound off All te stages where I need full use of my brain.

During the doing stage, that is when I listen to my audio book.

examples:

book covers
• designing, planning = determinng what 3 fabric colors & patterns to choose (can take a while) also: choosing the embelishing ribbong and bookmarkers & ties.
• measuring, cutting = all that yuchy left brain stuff.
• during the rest of it: Sewing, painting the boarders, sewing on the sequences & beads... that's the part in which my brain has a part of it that needs to have someting entertaining it.

drawing
• deteriinging which image to use, how to crop it, prep it, etc... then mapping it out on my paper... getting the details right, like thet facial features, etc... I need to have it all quiet
• Then durening the filling in part: shading more details etc... Then I put on my audio books, or music.

Jewelry making
same pattern as above: quiet during the designing and planning phases, non-visual entertainment during the duing phases.

Make sense!





**Tribute: Lt. J.G. Robert Sterling, WWII Pilot MIA, by Gramma & DoN**
Art Gallery Revised, Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


Huan71
Lorien

Jul 10 2008, 10:26pm

Post #147 of 152 (3281 views)
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I'm not that conscientious. [In reply to] Can't Post

When i do Art...mostly drawing, it's very random, infrequent, and when something takes my fancy. No real structure. But, i cant think about anything else, or have attention on anything else.
At work the other week, i was sat by my machine drawing, with pen, my legs! lol well, i became aware of this whistling. i turned around to see a couple of grinning faces pointing at loads of coiled metal going all over the floor.
I do really work for my money dont i ! lol

Thanks for your comments, thoughts and points you raised in your other message. interesting stuff and much to think about and look into.


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Jul 11 2008, 5:13am

Post #148 of 152 (3271 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

it doesn't happen often, and was more common when I was younger, but yes, sometimes people seem to think "deaf = stupid". Some then try to use baby talk with me, believing I'd not understand whole sentences - something I find very annoying, to put it mildly Wink. And some simlpy look at me like at a calf with two heads and run away. Well, I suppose it's asking too much of them, because they don't know how to communicate with me, even if I have told them to speak a bit more slowly and clearly than usual (I'm relying on lip-reading alone, never learned the sign language). Today I can laugh about them, but when I was younger, that truly hurt.
When I was new to the internet, I simply wondered. When some people in RL refuse to even try to talk with me, even if they should see that there's no problem - how would others react who can't see me? I never admitted my disability openly at this board, but to these I had private contacts with. Most of them I've meet in RL repeatedly over the years, and it was never an issue. (In fact, the first one I told was first speechless and then told me her little sister was nearly deaf, too!) It made me more comfortable with admitting it openly. And here at TORn I had lurked long enough to feel it would not be a problem.

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Jul 11 2008, 2:32pm

Post #149 of 152 (3261 views)
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I think a lot of people don't have enough imagination [In reply to] Can't Post

to think about what it would be like to be in someone else's shoes. When I was in grade school I read a lot of books about deaf and/or blind people; for some reason I found that really interesting. Maybe it was partly because my parents raised me to be interested in people who were different from us; we often had foreign students over for dinner at our house. (BTW, I see from your bio that you live in Germany. I'm assuming English is a second language for you. If so, I'm amazed, because your English is excellent.)

When I was in high school I had friends from all over the world, from Pakistan, Korea, and Mexico, and before I met my all-American husband, I dated guys from Germany and Iran. I've also had lots of gay friends all my life. And my life has been so much richer for the diversity of people in it.

I had a deaf woman in my class once who brought an interpreter with her. I made a special effort to turn and face the class when I spoke (which probably benefited the rest of the class as well), and after a couple of weeks the woman told her interpreter she didn't need him to come to my class.

One of my husband's railroad buddies is blind. It's refreshing being around him, because he tells me I'm looking good, whether I really am or not ;-)

I can't stand discrimination of any kind, and I do see it against disabled people, which seems exceptionally unkind. I remember several years ago being at a counter at a store and seeing the person behind the counter completely ignore the man in a wheelchair who was in front of me in line. I was furious, and said "Hey, he was here before me; take care of him first!"

What people with limited imagination don't realize is that almost all of us will be disabled at some point in our lives, if only temporarily. I've been on crutches a few times after accidents, and I lost a lot of my hearing for a few weeks once after a particularly bad ear infection. That didn't at all change who I was.

Anyway, I'm sorry you've run into people who are imagination-challenged. I guess I'm not really surprised, but it's still shocking. I'm soooo glad you're here on TORn! And thanks for sharing some of your story.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Peredhil lover
Valinor

Jul 11 2008, 3:46pm

Post #150 of 152 (3274 views)
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I wonder if [In reply to] Can't Post

part of the problem here in Germany is that most disabled children are taught only in special schools. The school system is, particularly in Bavaria, rather 'selective' instead of 'integrative'. (And there are huge issues with the education even for the *not* disabled children, but that's another topic). In my opinion it would be much better to teach them together as far as possible; the not disabled would learn something in the process, too. It would get them to try and think about being in other people's shoes, as you said.

But as it is, my mother had to fight for me staying at a normal school, and it was only possible because all my headmasters didn't tell the education authority, otherwise I'd been forced to visit a school for deaf people, regardless of my marks. So I'm probably not the average deaf, at least not here. Sometimes I wonder how much chances are denied to other deaf children ...

We're thinking rather alike about minorities of any kind, I see. I always felt the same (well, not so surprising, I suppose Wink) Have gay friends and acquaintances, too, and even two colleagues originally from Iran Smile And I think it is the same with all the regulars here - this open-mindedness shows in so many ways. That's why I am glad to be here, too! People like you are what make the boards such a great place to be. And I loved your story about the deaf woman in your class. It was very considerate of you to face her - one of the little details that are easily done and help so much. People like you make things so much more bearable for us!

Good point about everyone being disabled at one point! You don't even need an accident (hope it wasn't too bad for you!? And I am particularly glad the ear infection didn't have lasting repercussions!) - everyone gets older and more limited in what he can do, after all. For some people it will be quite an eye-opener to be depended on others.

Thank you for the compliment about my English! Blush You're right, I am German and learned English at school, though not so very well. And as I can barely speak it (why has the pronouncation to be so different from the spelling? *grumble*), after school I didn't read or use any English for at least 13 years. Then a friend convinced me to try the new book from one of my favourite authors, because the translation would take at least six more months to be published. Well, I somehow managed - with book in the one and dictionary in the other hand, because I had forgotten so much Wink And not too much later, I discovered LotR and wanted to read fanfic, but couldn't find readable German ones, so I had to read English fics, and reading and reviewing truly taught me a lot. So in the end, Tolkien is to blame/thank for me finally learning proper English at my old age Smile
(And btw, that reminds me that I still owe you a review for 'Chance meeting at Rivendell'!)

Thank *you* for your kindness and interest in me!

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

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