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Loresilme
Valinor
Jul 5 2008, 3:08am
Post #1 of 38
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** Blink and you MISC it: Legolas & the three arrows **
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Hey all, I'm back 
and I want to send out a big THANK YOU to all my fellow Screencappers who filled in on MISC the past few months. They were all outstanding and I really hope everyone had fun with it. You guys really raised the bar on me now! And the offer is always out there, any time anyone would like to jump in with a MISC of their own some weekend, "you are most welcome"
just PM me and let me know.
The past few weeks I've been experimenting with making my own screencaps. After using the caps only from the screencap library for so long (bows sincerely to the gracious and talented Reera the Red), I just wanted to see what else I could find. And going through the films in slow motion on the computer, you do find a lot of those 'blink and you miss it' surprises, so I thought I'd return with a few of those for a while. The quality (visual clarity) of the caps from Reera's screencap library is, I feel, far superior to what I have been able to get, but, we'll see how it goes.
So here is my 'nice to be back' mathom for y'all -- a great fangirl/boy shot of Legolas that I came across that really grabbed my attention. Aside from the obvious reasons (ahem), I liked that this is such a great shot capturing the three arrows. And framed against the darkened sky, it's such a great image, I'm surprised I haven't seen it elsewhere. Maybe it's out there somewhere in Orly fandom-land, but I'd never seen it before.
I'm not even sure if I realized, while watching the films, that Legolas used three arrows to bring down the mumakil
.guess I must have blinked  .
Enjoy all
it's so nice to be back. I'm going to wander around the rooms here at TORn and see what everybody's been up to. I missed it ... feels just like coming home  .
 Loresilme
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Starling
Half-elven
Jul 5 2008, 3:31am
Post #3 of 38
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I just had a bad flashback to my tragic score on that quiz.
Not my finest hour!
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Loresilme
Valinor
Jul 5 2008, 4:29am
Post #4 of 38
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And that was a very funny trivia thread, btw  .
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Smeagirl/Girllum
Gondor
Jul 5 2008, 4:37pm
Post #5 of 38
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I have an archery/physics question.
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OK, assuming for the moment that someone could actually shoot three arrows at once in the midst of battle while standing on the back of a mumakil --
Since the kinetic energy in the bow and string are being transferred to the arrow(s), is there any advantage to shooting three arrows at once (other than it looking cool)? Wouldn't each arrow be propelled forward with only a third as much energy? Or maybe less, since generally a bow is designed to be used with a specific weight of arrow? Also, unless Legolas had been practicing this technique, how could his aim be as good?
It is a great image though. Thanks Loresilme!
"There was something in this tree that I have never seen before," he said. "It was not an orc. It fled as soon as I touched the tree-stem. It seemed to be wary, and to have some skill in trees, or I might have thought that it was one of you hobbits."
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Elberbeth
Tol Eressea
Jul 5 2008, 4:46pm
Post #6 of 38
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But it was a bow of the Galadhrim, remember
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and so could probably do anything its owner wanted it to.
"There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."
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Magpie
Immortal
Jul 5 2008, 4:49pm
Post #7 of 38
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That is a perfect geek question!
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And reminds me of a recent Car Talk puzzler.
Do we have any physics people on the board? It would seem to me the aim of each would be a bit different. Different enough to send any astray? I don't know.
But like you said, it makes for a great image.
magpie avatar gallery ~ soundtrack website ~ Torn Image Posting Guide
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Loresilme
Valinor
Jul 5 2008, 5:30pm
Post #10 of 38
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Between Smeagirl/Girllum's question and Elbereth's answer
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I would say we have the geek conversational equivalent of Caras Galadhon - the heart and spirit of utter geekdom on earth  .
I love TORn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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melthavron
The Shire
Jul 5 2008, 7:27pm
Post #11 of 38
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The arrows would probably diverge slightly, hitting three neural centres simultaneously. The combined shock of three arrows arriving together would possibly be greater than if they arrived separately.
From the positioning of the arrows, they would probably have hit the motor cortex, thus causing the mūmak to collapse forward under its own momentum. 
Hige sceal že heardra, / Will shall be the sterner,
heorte že cenre, / heart the bolder,
mod sceal že mare, / spirit the greater,
že ure męgen lytlaš. / as our strength lessens.
(This post was edited by melthavron on Jul 5 2008, 7:32pm)
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Jul 5 2008, 7:31pm
Post #12 of 38
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That reminds me of a great thread on Movie soon after RotK came out. Someone suggested that Frodo's underwear peeking out at the waist in the Tower of Cirith Ungol was a mistake - that it was Elijah Wood's own underwear accidentally showing.
There were two answers to this question:
The first was an erudite summary of the history of men's undergarments in 18th century England, showing that linen with a drawstring waist, as worn by Frodo, was entirely in period.
The second was a set of shots of Elijah's own brightly printed boxers peeking out at the waist of his jeans as he showed off his tattoo!
Case closed!
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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Artanis
Rohan
Jul 5 2008, 7:56pm
Post #13 of 38
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I have never even noticed he had three arrows....makes me wonder what else I missed!
Artanis
Reading: Unfinished Tales -Tolkien, The letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Father Brown Selected Stories - G.K. Chesterton
Listening: LOTR Trilogy Soundrack, The Silmarillion
Random Delights: Tea, bourbon biscuits and TORn
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 5 2008, 10:01pm
Post #15 of 38
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if Bloom actually held three arrows in this shot? We know he could hold two as this method was discussed in online articles for the scene - I forget which one - where Legolas shot two at once. But I don't believe this three-arrow shot was ever discussed, which makes me wonder if a bit of CGI trickery was involved in the form of digitally adding one or two arrows so that they look professionally held by an expert Elf marksman.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Saurons master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Smeagirl/Girllum
Gondor
Jul 5 2008, 10:34pm
Post #16 of 38
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On thinking about it, I don't see how it would be possible,
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at least not without a huge amount of practice. It seems like in general all the (movie) elvish arrows have really large fletching (feathers). So to hold three arrows, separated enough so the fletching doesn't get tangled and each one is positioned correctly on the string, while pulling the string back -- I guess elves have long fingers, but even so, it just doesn't seem do-able, not even by a real elf, let alone a human playing one.
"I wish I could lay my hands on the wretch. We might make him useful. But if I cannot, we shall have to try and lose him. He is very dangerous."
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Magpie
Immortal
Jul 5 2008, 10:38pm
Post #17 of 38
(490 views)
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is a physical mockup of three arrows kind of fastened together so that there's only two props to hold and control: the bow and the combined arrows.
I kind of looked at Bloom's fingers and - at a quick glance - they didn't look as if they were properly holding anything which could indicate CG.
magpie avatar gallery ~ soundtrack website ~ Torn Image Posting Guide
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Eruwestial37
Rohan
Jul 6 2008, 12:05am
Post #18 of 38
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Who actually tried this. 
Two arrows will work, as there are enough fingers to hold the arrows while pulling back the string. Three arrows simply have no place to go. I had to rest the second arrow on top of my fingers, with the first arrow between them. Most archers use a two finger pull as the string bends at too acute an angle to allow 3 or more fingers at the point.
Two arrows always went in two different directions whenever I tried this, but then I'm no Legolas!
Look carefully at the picture and you can see they CG'ed them on top of his hand, rather than have him hold them between his fingers.
Anyone who wants to replicate my effort-do be certain you are the only one on the archery range. They go very wide and do carry the strength of the bow.
As for the advantage? It looks cool and probably impresses the Dwarf (though he'd never admit it).
Otherwise, it would indeed divide the force from the bow. If his bow was as powerful as an Elven bow might be, then it could be an advantage assuming he could tame those arrows into all going the same direction. Two would make a bigger hole than one, so perhaps he figured that would help.
I always thought he used two to emphasize his wish to stop the troll from killing Gimli-the target of the moment.
I would think an Elf would practice all sorts of variations. After a few hundred years, single-arrow shooting could get dull.
Eruwestial
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Elven
Valinor
Jul 6 2008, 12:13am
Post #19 of 38
(483 views)
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he had two in the skull from atop.
ended up like a dart board ... now there's a novel idea
Cheers
Elven
Were off to Hobbiton finally!
Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jul 6 2008, 1:23am
Post #20 of 38
(480 views)
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I love the 3-arrow shot, but I'm more taken with the intensity of his expression. NAR, imho. Translation: No Acting Required. Just from his eyes and his straining has be totally believing he's drawing these arrows with added strength and focus. Brilliant!
I SO wish I had the capability to screencapping. But then again, I'd be lost to the world for months/years just playing and pining :)
It's GREAT to see you, m'dear!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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Finduilas101
Rivendell
Jul 6 2008, 2:28pm
Post #21 of 38
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So perhaps the whole propulsion thing wouldn't matter. As for aim, well, Leggy is only about three feet from the Mumakil's head...
Saruman, Gandalf the Grey rides to Isenguard...NO LONGER SEEKING YOUR COUNCIL!!!
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Loresilme
Valinor
Jul 6 2008, 11:44pm
Post #22 of 38
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It's Elijah's Underwear vs. Mr. DIITTTY
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in competition for "Biggest Technical Goofs in the Trilogy" .
So far I think the biggest one was the guy I call "Mr. DIITTTY". This would be Karl Urban's stand in, who accidentally appears in a scene towards the very end of TTT with Gandalf, Aragorn, etc., after the battle.
"DIITTTY", being short for, "Dude! I'm In The Two Towers! Yessssssss!"
Loresilme
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Loresilme
Valinor
Jul 6 2008, 11:54pm
Post #23 of 38
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"Do not try this at home" LOL!
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I'll take your word for it!
I think you're right about them CGing the arrows over his fingers, when I look carefully, his fingers are sort of blurred / somewhat disappearing, you don't actually see them on the arrows. That might have been why this shot never became well-used or blown up into larger sizes, it probably became very apparent the closer you look!
Thanks for sharing your expertise on archery. Your geeky secret is safe with us ! btw, (I read your profile) were you already into archery before getting, er, into Legolas , or after you saw the films?
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Loresilme
Valinor
Jul 6 2008, 11:57pm
Post #24 of 38
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Uh oh. I think I made a pun....
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Loresilme
Valinor
Jul 6 2008, 11:59pm
Post #25 of 38
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Amazing, isn't it. I have some more of these types of shots coming in the next few weeks, other scenes where when I watched in slow motion I went, "Huh? I watched these films how many times and I never saw that??".
Stay tuned !
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