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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
I just had a small revelation.


Mar 21 2007, 5:45am

Post #1 of 17 (1035 views)
I just had a small revelation. Can't Post

Tonight I rented Eragon, since I didn't get a chance to see it on the
big screen. I read the book before Christmas, at my 12 year old niece's
request, as she is a fan of the books. I enjoyed the book as an easy
read, and found it generally entertaining, and was looking forward to
seeing it brought to the screen.

Now to my revelation. I have been at times a "PJ naysayer" as far as
the LotR movies go. I loved much of his vision, but have always had
some rather large issues with some of the choices that were made. That
being said, after seeing Eragon I have realized what was accomplished
by PJ & Co. Somehow, LotR has a feeling of completeness, even though
much obviously had to be cut or embellished to bring it to cinematic

Eragon was quite the opposite in my opinion. Overall it was somewhat
well done I suppose. But it seemed too "cute", and terribly rushed. I
was amazed that a rather ordinary story on the page could seem so
hurried and "simple" on the screen. There just wasn't enough in the
book to make a movie feel like so much was missing on screen.

So, the little things one notices can really make a huge difference in
how one views a final vision. My viewing of Eragon really affected my
opinion of LotR, ala PJ. Kudos to PJ and Co. for making LotR so
"substantial" if I can use that word. Their vision of LotR really has
substance, and a feeling of reality in pacing, even with the issues I
might have with some details. I will definitely keep this in mind when
critiquing LotR from now on! My eyes were opened just a little more.

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
~Oscar Wilde

SandWitch King

Mar 21 2007, 6:26am

Post #2 of 17 (663 views)
Great post [In reply to] Can't Post

I have often pondered what a complete FUBAR the LOTR films could have been. Anyway, I enjoyed your thoughts.

No wonder all writers want to direct: one still has to put up with a load of nonsense, but even if wearing two hats (writer and director), there is one under which one is not called a thief and then raped.

Tol Eressea

Mar 21 2007, 10:42am

Post #3 of 17 (636 views)
Very well put! [In reply to] Can't Post

When my husband & I complain about something in the movies, we end up saying that things could have been MUCH worse.


Mar 21 2007, 3:10pm

Post #4 of 17 (638 views)
And yet [In reply to] Can't Post

The book Eragon seems to go on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on.... bad editing for what is ultimately a terribly thin, derivative story set in a universe that's a mishmash of LOTR, Star Wars, Earthsea, Pern, and Dune. The film, though, is rushed and suffers for being so hasty in its storytelling.

For all the individual elements of the LOTR films I don't like, it does "flesh out" Tolkien's universe and even with the constraints of film (such as simplifying the Gondorian ruling line, etc.), it still gives us a more substantial universe than most fantasy films.

(Formerly drogo of the two names!)


Mar 21 2007, 6:38pm

Post #5 of 17 (606 views)
I saw it... [In reply to] Can't Post

at Christmas/New Year and I felt the same...

well put.


Elven by name, Hobbit by nature

'Road lead ever on and on
down from the door where it began
now far ahead the road has gone
down from where all began' -FOTR-

and through all the world has changed
the ages come and go with time
and yet those remain unchanged
unto they journey westward
over the sea...

Grey Havens

Mar 21 2007, 10:06pm

Post #6 of 17 (612 views)
I, too, felt it was too rushed... [In reply to] Can't Post

... and there was too much information left out.

I don't think Book 2 will ever make it to the big screen. Apparently, despite the amount of money it made worldwide, Book 1 didn't make enough domestically to satisfy the studios.


Mar 21 2007, 11:36pm

Post #7 of 17 (616 views)
I absolutly love the LotR movies. [In reply to] Can't Post

But it seems that I spend more time talking about what I don't like about them than what I do like and I used to wonder why. I finally decided why the things I don't like seem so bad. It's because everything else is so incredibly good. If all of the things that I don't like were put in some Hollywood version of the films, they would probably then be the best parts.

I shudder to think what Hollywood might have done with these stories. And after seeing some of the things that P.J. was thinking about doing, I have decided the the movies turned out remarkably well indeed.

Never the less, I still like to talk about what I don't like. If I had made these movies ...


Mar 22 2007, 6:55pm

Post #8 of 17 (593 views)
I read the books long before the movies [In reply to] Can't Post

were even a glint in PJ's eye, but I have always loved them, flaws and all. I think that he did a brilliant job of bringing ME to life and all of the stories therein. I hope that you can sit back and enjoy them more now! Sounds like I can skip Eregon. Tongue

(Formerly Lossefalme3, just in case you're wondering)*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Aragorn threw back his cloak. The elven-sheath glittered as he grasped it, and the bright blade of Andúril shone like a sudden flame as he swept it out. 'Elendil!' he cried. 'I am Aragorn son of Arathorn, and am called Elessar, the Elfstone, Dúnadan, the heir of Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor. Here is the Sword that was Broken and is forged again! Will you aid me or thwart me? Choose swiftly!' TTT, Book III, Chapter 2
And Éomer answered: 'Since the day when you rose before me out of the green grass of the downs I have loved you, and that love shall not fail.' RotK, Book VI, Chapter 5


Mar 22 2007, 10:17pm

Post #9 of 17 (584 views)
me too [In reply to] Can't Post

They aren't perfect, but when I see them, I visit Middle-earth. That is an astounding thing!

Only a real man would dare do his morning power walk in a puffy shirt.

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Mar 22 2007, 10:34pm

Post #10 of 17 (591 views)
Perhaps they're planing an extended edition of Eragon... [In reply to] Can't Post

to fix what seemed rushed.

I think that there are only two things that could have made me love the Rings movies more. 1) They could have left out the words "Arwen is dying." and 2) They could have been longer.

Welcome to Rivendell, Patty Baggins


Mar 23 2007, 8:11am

Post #11 of 17 (580 views)
Everything else is so incredibly good. [In reply to] Can't Post

Everything else is so incredibly good.

That is the key, as far as I am concerned. And that was my original point. I saw, with another fantasy movie, what could have been done (negatively) and was amazed to find I was not as "crusty" about the LotR changes as I thought I was. And I am in complete agreement when it comes to wanting to talk about what I don't like. It's more interesting to some extent, isn't it? If I had made these movies....they wouldn't have happened. ;)

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
~Oscar Wilde


Mar 24 2007, 2:54am

Post #12 of 17 (552 views)
I was just thinking [In reply to] Can't Post

We could have had a 2 hour movie Miramax if PJ hadn't found another studio.


Mar 25 2007, 3:19pm

Post #13 of 17 (533 views)
re: [In reply to] Can't Post

>>They could have left out the words "Arwen is dying."

LOL! How true! An inauthentic dramatic element suddenly imposed upon the story to give it "urgency"--but absolutely unsupported by events. She's just suddenly "dying"! The film most certainly could have done without that.


Mar 25 2007, 5:15pm

Post #14 of 17 (532 views)
Although I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

that "Arwen is dying" would have been better left out, I don't believe it was inserted for reasons of "urgency." In fact, I think it was almost the opposite - to suggest that Aragorn would have to finish his task with nothing personal to gain, and without the hope of ever seeing Arwen again. There's nothing in the movie about acting to save her, in fact Elrond and Aragorn exchange the words "I give hope to Men" - "I keep none for myself", which I think are meant to tell us that Aragorn believes (as his premonition-dream just before this suggested) that he has lost Arwen forever. Again, in the EE Sauron sends him a vision of Arwen apparently lying dead, and again, Aragorn sets out to do his duty, not to try to save Arwen but in the belief that all hope for her is lost.

I still think this subplot wasn't properly developed, and deserves all the criticism it gets because of that, but I think as an attempt to show that Aragorn, like Frodo, has "courage beyond hope", I think it is a much more authentic and worthy attempt than what many people seem to read as a "hero fights to save his girl" plotline that really isn't there.

...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.


Mar 27 2007, 6:33pm

Post #15 of 17 (510 views)
Well said! [In reply to] Can't Post

Well said farfromhome.

I did not like the "Arwen is dying" twist that was added to the movies.

But I would say that it was also not developed enough to get most emotionally involved.

In the movies, Aragorn was fighting for the survival of the race of men.

Not for himself, not to save Arwen, but for the greater good of all mankind.

It is a subtle reason among many why I liked movie Aragorn.

Registered User

Mar 27 2007, 6:38pm

Post #16 of 17 (505 views)
I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

Compare to ALL movies I see or have seen, LOTR blows them all away, even with all of the mistakes/changes by PJ and Co. LOTR is so powerful and mindblowing that it's really hard to compare it to other movies at all.


Mar 27 2007, 6:44pm

Post #17 of 17 (576 views)
Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

Sometimes I'll be watching the LOTR movies and I'll say "You know..this is all a bunch of full grown men cavorting around in elf and wizard suits."

And then Aragorn masters that Palantir, or Eowyn says "I am no man!", and Shadowfax vaults up a staircase in Minas Tirith, and I forget all about the elf-suit thing. Cool



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