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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jun 29 2008, 4:14pm
Post #1 of 20
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New Line Wins Round One
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Well, it looks like my take on the demurrer that New Line filed in the case filed against it by the Tolkien family and publisher was pretty darn accurate. The court sustained the demurrer with leave to amend within 20 days. The court explicitly held that the allegations in the Complaint support nothing more than a breach of contract cause of action. Assuming that the plaintiffs are unable to satisfactorily amend the complaint to assert new allegations that support the fraud and/or breach of fiduciary duty causes of action (a virtual impossibility), those causes of action are out, and New Line is protected from the possibility of an award of punitive damages.
It's fun to be right. 
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
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Eledhwen
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jun 29 2008, 5:00pm
Post #2 of 20
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And thanks for keeping us updated. It's appreciated!
Figwit Still Lives!
Calling for a Figwit cameo in The Hobbit since May 2008
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Woodyend
Gondor
Jun 29 2008, 5:12pm
Post #3 of 20
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Okay the only thing so far, that has been decided is, no punitive damages.
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Was this what took place on the 6/27 ?
May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!
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Woodyend
Gondor
Jun 29 2008, 6:09pm
Post #5 of 20
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Oops forgot to add my thanks as well.
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Without your hard work, getting out all the news about the suit, I would be so worried. Okay I'm still worried, but not panicked about The Hobbit. Thanks again, for easing my mind.
May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!
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Peredhil lover
Valinor
Jun 29 2008, 7:00pm
Post #6 of 20
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Thank you for keeping us updated!
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And congrats for being right 
Well, I'd not mind if New Line would have to pay a lot to the TE, but I know that was still the first round and we are years from a solution. And thanks to your explanations, I feel less uncertain about the whole lawsuit mess. So I can stay calm for the moment and not worry too much.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jun 29 2008, 9:46pm
Post #7 of 20
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Was this what took place on the 6/27 ?
Actually, I believe that the hearing went forward on the original date of 6/24; I guess someone refused to agree to continue it. But I wasn't able to access the data base until this weekend.
So just to clarify, yes in terms of what remedies are available the only thing that has been decided is no punitive damages (unless the plaintiffs are able to successfully amend their Complaint, which I think is virtually impossible). Punitive damages are essentially additional money that a defendant is required to pay beyond the amount that they damaged the plaintiff in order to punish them for malicious, oppressive or fraudulent conduct. So now the only money that New Line could be held liable is the amount, if any, that they are actually found to have owed the plaintiffs and failed to pay them.
This does not effect the plaintiffs' request to be give the right to terminate New Line's rights to make The Hobbit films. But it does show that the judge does not seem to be sympathetic to the plaintiffs' rather over the top legal positions. I think the judge, like myself, sees this as a straightfoward breach of contract case. But it certainly can be very tricky to predict what a judge will do on one issue based on what she does on other issue.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
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mwirkk
Rohan
Jun 29 2008, 10:27pm
Post #8 of 20
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Maybe just that one little thing(?)...
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...of the request to revert the movie rights back to the TE? Though, as Doug says, that's really unlikely. :)
Perhaps the other "worst" thing is NL has to cough up some cash they should have been forthright about in the first place...which I wouldn't consider a bad thing at all.
Apparently, NL puts no value whatsoever on their public image. They'll come out of this whole affair looking like chumps, even if they win.
The Black Knight Always Triumphs!!
-mwirkk :)
(This post was edited by mwirkk on Jun 29 2008, 10:31pm)
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jun 29 2008, 10:39pm
Post #9 of 20
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is that New Line will agree to pay some amount significantly less than the $150 million that the plaintiffs are asking for, some time next year. I would be very surprised if this case ever goes to trial. Of course, if there is a settlement, we won't know what the amount is for.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
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mwirkk
Rohan
Jun 29 2008, 11:17pm
Post #10 of 20
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...in being first to add on to CM's comments upstream... I was looking for your "Clearing up misconceptions...", thinking I'd find it in *your* post history, but I eventually found it under admin Altaira instead. I wanted to review that first to refresh myself, but ended up spending 30 minutes looking for it -- I couldn't remember its exact title. So by the time I posted you'd already said first, in part, what I was going to, and more! :)
Anyway, Doug, I had scrounged around looking for stickies pointing to this essay of yours, besides just looking in your post history and using keyword queries, but didn't find any that appeared obvious. Do you know (or perhaps an admin or someone else reading this can answer) is there an up-front link to this on TORn that I just missed? I thought there was mention of doing that. For myself, I'd like to see a regular editorial section or blog on TORn that features your observations. (I could understand if there were reasons for not doing something like that, however.)
The Black Knight Always Triumphs!!
-mwirkk :)
(This post was edited by mwirkk on Jun 29 2008, 11:20pm)
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jun 30 2008, 12:42am
Post #11 of 20
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mwirkk, the essay first appeared on the TORN front page. Here is the link.
I will certainly continue posting updates here on the TORN messageboard as I hear things (but there likely won't be anything for a while). You can also go to my own site, The Hall of Fire, to check what I have to say there.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 30 2008, 1:23am
Post #12 of 20
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I hereby dub thee "Legal Eagle Sibbie" *PWANG!*
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I'm SO grateful that you are so good to us to explain these way-complicated events! My poor brain would never be able to get around any of it!
So when you say, "It's all good"; I'm running with it and smiling :D
When you say, "Uh oh" or "Wups", I'll brace myself for some angst!
Cheers!!! Thanks muchly and Well done!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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Elven
Valinor
Jun 30 2008, 4:32am
Post #13 of 20
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Thankyou so much for all your hard work following this up, and a big congrats on your outcome for this first round! Go Voronwe the Faithful 
So do you think they will ammend in the next 20 days?
I'm thinking they might - what do you think? - even though it seems vitually impossible that they have something to ammend upon.
I wonder why they (plantiffs) have taken this course of approach the way they have - wouldn't have this been something which could have been decided at the end of the case? after the other stuff has been determined upon?
Its sooo interesting to see this all play out. 
Thanks VTF
Cheers Elven
Were off to Hobbiton finally!
Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jun 30 2008, 4:59am
Post #14 of 20
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Not Sure Whether They Will Amend
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So do you think they will ammend in the next 20 days?
I'm thinking they might - what do you think? - even though it seems vitually impossible that they have something to ammend upon. I'm really not sure. They don't have a lot to lose by doing so, except time. But I really don't think they have much to gain by doing so; I can't imagine that there are significant additional factual allegations that they just left out of the original Complaint. If they do amend, then there will be another demurrer filed, and we'll go through this again. I wonder why they (plantiffs) have taken this course of approach the way they have - wouldn't have this been something which could have been decided at the end of the case? after the other stuff has been determined upon? No, they had to do it from the beginning, or lose the opportunity. Many lawyers take the spaghetti approach; they through whatever they can against the wall and see what sticks. Personally, I try to be more selective about the claims that I bring on behalf of my clients.
Its sooo interesting to see this all play out.
Thanks VTF
It is my pleasure.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jun 30 2008, 5:01am
Post #15 of 20
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... to be be dubbed by thee, Gramma. I hope I always have good news to bring to you.
There might not be any news for a while, though.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
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StillCrazy
Bree
Jun 30 2008, 5:26am
Post #16 of 20
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VTF,
Thank you for the update. And all your legal insight in this matter makes it easier to sleep at night.
All the worlds a stage.
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mwirkk
Rohan
Jun 30 2008, 6:07am
Post #17 of 20
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...with feeling like I am actually understanding something of what's going on on the legal end of it, it's now the creative side where it's in the hands of the folks I'd say I trust most (GdT, PJ, et al.) about which I now have the most angst. 'Just goes to show the impact that information, or the lack of it, can have on the engines of rumour and speculation.
Btw- "PWANG"?! Zowies! Are you a former Batman TV-series writer? ;P
The Black Knight Always Triumphs!!
-mwirkk :)
(This post was edited by mwirkk on Jun 30 2008, 6:11am)
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Elven
Valinor
Jul 2 2008, 7:22am
Post #18 of 20
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Thanks for answering that VTF ... here are another list of disgruntled ... and a quote from Warners ...
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The Lord of The Rings Features twice in this list - one for the Tolkiens and one for Peter Jackson ... they missed another 2 for LOTR from Saul Zaentz ...
Though on the recent case, I found this quote reply from Warners - it seems the TE are currently going through the books with the auditors?
Article by RACHEL ABRAMOWITZ from the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/...ul02,0,7756278.story
..... All of New Line's litigation has been assumed by its corporate owner, Warner Bros., which is making pains to at least sound more conciliatory. A spokesman gave us the following statement: "The Tolkien estate is currently auditing New Line's books and records for the 'Lord of the Rings' films and we are working closely with the estate's accountants and lawyers to facilitate and expedite this process. While we respectfully disagree with some of the estate's positions, we are hopeful that the dispute can be amicably resolved once the audit has been completed." .... Recently, the judge in the case made a ruling that the Tolkien plaintiffs had not presented enough evidence to warrant their fraud and fiduciary claims but has given the Tolkiens a limited time to present more facts. Both sides are spinning the decision as a victory, and New Line is still on the hook for a potential $150 million in damages.
Just thought these cases were interesting as well - if you dont go into batlle, I guess you dont have the chance to see if you will be compensated.
Cheers
Elven x
From LA Times - Big Hits, Bitter Battles
http://www.latimes.com/...4068145.photogallery
Were off to Hobbiton finally!
Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jul 2 2008, 1:35pm
Post #19 of 20
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That's a pretty good article; probably the best and most accurate that I've seen about the lawsuit. Although I have to say that the idea of the plaintiff's claiming victory after the demurrer was sustained is pretty laughable.
The comments from Warner's spokesperson is pretty encouraging. I continue to be fairly confident that the case will be resolved without any threat to the Hobbit films.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
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Elven
Valinor
Jul 2 2008, 3:54pm
Post #20 of 20
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I find the audit interesting ..
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as there's not much been said about that at all, ad I thought part of the plantiffs case was to be allowed to get to NL's paperwork whereas they've been refused before ... mayeb then, they will lodge again, depending on what they come up with - but I see Warners are in there keeping an eye on things too (no doubt).
Hopefully we'll hear some more news soon.
Until then ..(its like a soap opera )
Cheers
Elven
Were off to Hobbiton finally!
Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!
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