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elf_wannabee
Menegroth
Jun 18 2008, 12:52am
Post #1 of 49
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According to AFI's jury--Wizard of Oz beats LotR--do you agree?
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I agree that without the WoO there would be no LotR cinematically but in my humble opinion it should be the other way around. LotR will be the BEST fantasy movie ever!!
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mwirkk
Nargothrond
Jun 18 2008, 1:03am
Post #2 of 49
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Reading other's TOP-Whatever Lists ...
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...just makes me angry. So I try to avoid them. >8|
But, of course I do NOT agree. The only good thing in The Wizard of Oz (the movie) were the flying monkeys, which were pretty darned Kuul! Scared the heck outta me when I was real little. Which just made it all the better. ;P But apart from that, Naaahh!!
I saw the ad a couple of nights ago for the AFI 10 Top 10 show tonight on CBS. Is that result part of this show? (I'm not a signed-up member so I can't see any details from their web-site.)
The Black Knight Always Triumphs!!
-mwirkk :)
(This post was edited by mwirkk on Jun 18 2008, 1:04am)
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Patty
Elvenhome
Jun 18 2008, 3:20am
Post #3 of 49
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Time may change this opinion, nevertheless...
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I'm glad one doesn't HAVE to best the other. We can enjoy both without the contest.
Hanging out with the Lonely Isle elves.
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Jun 18 2008, 3:24am
Post #4 of 49
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It's nice they picked a silent film as best romantic comedy.
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And City Lights is an excellent film.
The AFI lists tend to be pretty safe choices, and I agree with those who wish they'd range more widely. On the other hand, most people haven't seen even these well-established classics, so I appreciate this limited effort to expose audiences to some good film clips, that might spur them to seek out, say, The Third Man (perhaps my favorite film from this year's list -- #5 in the "Mystery" category, though its date is listed incorrectly).
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Jun. 16-22 for "The Palantír".
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mwirkk
Nargothrond
Jun 18 2008, 8:31am
Post #5 of 49
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Not as bad as I thought it would be... And, WoOz
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I managed to get home on time to watch the AFI 10 Top 10 on CBS. While I have plenty of nit-picks, overall I couldn't disagree very much with their choices. :)
Wizard of Oz: My previous post probably makes it sound like I hate WoOz. I don't. I actually like it. Have watched it many times. In the 3rd grade my teacher read it to the class. And a different teacher I had in the 4th did also (they were at different facilities, so I don't think she knew some of us had already heard it). But I enjoyed it both times. And I remember that when I saw the movie at my grandparents' I was disappointed a few of my favourite things from the book weren't in the movie. So WoOz may hold the distinction to be the first book to film adaptation I was ever disappointed in, in my life.
I've gotten over that (I think, I hope), but I've got a couple of co-workers who are still upset over PJ's omissions from FotR (primarily Book1); not noting the 17 years between Frodo's 33rd and 50th birthdays; leaving out Farmer Maggot's help; the Old Forest, Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Downs; leaving out Glorfindel and inserting Arwen. One of them to this day has refused to see the rest of the trilogy! I was upset about the omission of the Barrow Downs (without ole' Tom, though, they'd of had to devise another escape), but I could sympathize with the comprimises that need to be made in translating art from one medium to another. I just coped by imagining in my own mind that Strider already had the four blades somehow. My friend is a purist. I try to be pragmatic, though I might express a compulsive purist streak at times myself. ;)
So, I'm watching this show, the AFI 10 Top 10, and I'm thinking how I really like the fact so many of the movies selected are older ones. There is such a tendency in popular opinion polls to always give the most attention to movies that have come out most recently. It's nice to see a survey that is more balanced. Probably to many watching the show they've never even seen some of those old great movies. Perhaps a show like this might inspire people to make an effort to go out, get and watch some of the classics in cinema. It also reminds me that the latest and greatest techinques do not necessarily guarantee a better movie. But sometimes it does influence the adaptation of the original material based on what may or may not be possible to film, and perhaps the state of the industry should be a considered factor when comparing films of different eras.
The Black Knight Always Triumphs!!
-mwirkk :)
(This post was edited by mwirkk on Jun 18 2008, 8:35am)
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hatster
Nargothrond
Jun 18 2008, 10:41am
Post #6 of 49
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I figured it would come out on top even if
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I've always thought of it as part of the genre of musical than of fantasy. But it seems they don't have that category hmmmmmm
The term is over: the holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning.
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a.s.
Doriath
Jun 18 2008, 11:38am
Post #7 of 49
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I think Oz is the better movie. Not being much of a movie-goer I have a hard time stating WHY I think it's a better movie than any of the LOTR trilogy, except FOTR. If it weren't so obvious at the end of FOTR that it was a story that was going to be continued (if it was a "stand alone" movie, for instance) I would like it better than Wizard. But as it is, I like Wizard better; perhaps just because it's a complete story.
It could be partially nostalgia, partially remembering the exact moment when I realized that the Oz part of the movie was in COLOR (we didn't get color TV until late in the 60s and Wizard was only shown once a year on TV at that time), and partially because Oz was as beloved to my childish heart as Narnia or ME. Dunno. I just know the Witch still gives me the creeps. And I still tear up when Dorothy says "And oh, Auntie Em, there's no place like home".
I wait for it just like I wait to read "Well, I'm back".
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"It doesn't happen all at once," said the Skin Horse. "You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand."
"I suppose you are real?" said the Rabbit. And then he wished he had not said it, for he thought the Skin Horse might be sensitive.
But the Skin Horse only smiled.
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xxxyyy
Nargothrond
Jun 18 2008, 12:31pm
Post #8 of 49
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Someone please tell AFI the there is no FOTR... LOTR is just ONE movie.
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And, of course, it beats the... you know what... out of the WoO, in my humble opinion (which is right).
:)
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Magpie
Elvenhome
Jun 18 2008, 12:43pm
Post #9 of 49
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makes me understand the place it holds in people's hearts. That movie was on TV every year as I was growing up. It was an event. I watched it every year until I was getting too old and too cool to (which was about 16). Then I'd still 'catch' portions. And truth told, even at 16 it scared me in places. I knew every nuance. Every line. It provided a source of fantasy like no other movie during all that time.
I'd be hard pressed to compare the LOTR movies and Wizard of Oz. I liked them at different times of my life and for different reasons. And about 75% of my affection for the LOTR movies is driven by my devotion to the books. Tolkien won my heart. PJ just grabbed the coattails.
I also have quite a few quibbles with the LOTR movies. I think there are things PJ inserted that he was in love with but I'm not. And since I 'know better', (that is, I know the original), it irks me and takes me out of my enjoying the movies mood. Wizard of Oz doesn't do that.
I can see why LOTR, a powerhouse created in part by a huge book fan base and in part by the internet, can seem like a larger, more important movie than Wizard of Oz to anyone under a certain age. But for some of us over a certain age, Wizard of Oz has a more established position. If I had to vote honestly, I'd vote Wizard of Oz.
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Foe
Menegroth
Jun 18 2008, 3:15pm
Post #10 of 49
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Biased opinions here... same as if you posted it on a Wizard of Oz board
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you'd get the opposite results (theoretically). I've never been a really big WoO fan, but I can appreciate it.
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Finduilas101
Ossiriand
Jun 18 2008, 5:38pm
Post #11 of 49
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WIZARD OF OZ BEAT LOTR????? Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!! My entire will to live has deserted me!!! I might as well go light myself on fire and jump off the Minas Tirith cliff courtyard now...lol.
"I like cooking, but I like other people cooking more." -David Wenham
"I think being different, going against the grain of society, is the greatest thing in the world." -Elijah Wood.
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StillCrazy
Nevrast
Jun 18 2008, 5:58pm
Post #12 of 49
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Made the list as a sports movie, man that took guts to do. Still one of my favorites but I think of it more as a comedy.
Glad to see City Lights was number one, very good choice.
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Annael
Elvenhome
Jun 18 2008, 7:48pm
Post #13 of 49
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I think context matters. My mother remembers seeing WoO in the theater and being absolutely amazed when the movie went from black and white to color - color was still rare in those days. WoO represented a leap forward in movie technology equivalent to the first "talkies" or the first Star Wars movie - when people saw those movies, they saw something new. You could argue that the use of motion capture for Gollum in LOTR was a similar breakthrough, but I don't think it generated quite the same level of sitting-back-in-your-seat, jaw-dropping astonishment.
In my house, the annual televised showing of WoO was a special event unlike any other. We got to eat dinner in front of the TV (on TV trays, remember those?), which never, ever happened at any other time.
The movie is iconic, not just for the story but for young Judy Garland singing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow." Much as I love LOTR, I just can't say that the movie is as important to movie history as WoO is.
Our similarities bring us to a common ground; our differences allow us to be fascinated by each other.
- Tom Robbins
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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Annael
Elvenhome
Jun 18 2008, 7:49pm
Post #14 of 49
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it's not a football game!
Our similarities bring us to a common ground; our differences allow us to be fascinated by each other.
- Tom Robbins
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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Patty
Elvenhome
Jun 18 2008, 8:30pm
Post #15 of 49
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I so much agree with this statement...
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really, everyone had to think outside the box for this set of movies. It's NOT a trilogy in the sense that each can stand alone--it's one long movie that for good reasons had to be cut up into 3 parts. Not a movie that did well, so that 2 sequels building on the world were planned. If folks could accept that reasoning, I think a lot of confusion could be cleared up.
Hanging out with the Lonely Isle elves.
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Frodo Hoy
Nevrast
Jun 18 2008, 8:35pm
Post #16 of 49
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And the wicked witch still creeps me out.
I ran from the room when she appeared in Munchkinland the first time I watched it. The next year I was out of there when she did her thing by the apple grove. It wasn't until the third year that I saw the movie in its entirety.
I saw a short clip last night with her appearing in the crystal, mocking Dorothy. That witch is still creepy after all these years.
"From some way off, or so it seemed, he thought he heard a cry: 'Hoy! Frodo! Hoy!' .. 'Frodo! Hoy!' came the thin voices out of the mist."
Fog on the Barrow-downs
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Huan71
Menegroth
Jun 18 2008, 10:44pm
Post #17 of 49
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that America has with (cheesy) Oz continues.
LotR's is better.
"Only the guilty dream"... oh dear, i'm DOOMED!!
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mwirkk
Nargothrond
Jun 18 2008, 11:14pm
Post #18 of 49
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The Academy recognized that too...
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...IMO. I think that's why RotK gets the sweep. It represents a sentiment about the collective whole.
The Black Knight Always Triumphs!!
-mwirkk :)
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MrCere
Sr. Staff
Jun 18 2008, 11:14pm
Post #19 of 49
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Were these important films or better films?
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I am not sure what "top" films means. They carefully didn't name them "best" films.
I have no choice but to believe in free will.
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
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mwirkk
Nargothrond
Jun 18 2008, 11:23pm
Post #20 of 49
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...in context of the AFI's mission statement.
I'd bet they look at it from the perspective of milestones that propelled the craft forward, or set a standard by which all others are judged. When something comes along and "sets the bar", others may come later and beat it, but still not replace in that respect.
That may be a reason why WoOz was judged #1. And why Harvey is on the list at all.
That's just a SWAG on my part. :)
The Black Knight Always Triumphs!!
-mwirkk :)
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Anorien
Nargothrond
Jun 18 2008, 11:57pm
Post #21 of 49
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I am glad that Lord of the Rings made it to the top. I don't know why the Wizard of Oz made it to number 1. It is a good movie, although when I first saw it when I was about 7 the tornado gave me nightmares for a month. But I feel that the Lord of the Rings has a bit more depth to it. The WoOZ is a fun movie and I like the happy, creative feel, but I am definitely a LOTR fan. I think that is should have been number one, but I think number two is still good.
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Morthoron
Hithlum
Jun 19 2008, 1:36am
Post #22 of 49
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From a demographic standpoint, The Wizard of Oz is a movie that can be watched and enjoyed by anyone from two to one-hundred and two, boys and girls, men and women (which is not the case for FotR). The Wizard of Oz is one of the few instances in film history where the movie actually transcended and eclipsed the book written by F.L. Baum (again, which is not the case for FotR in relationship to Tolkien's books). As others have inferred, the Wizard of Oz has a completeness -- a climax and denouement -- that is unavailable to FotR, as it is, of course, part of a trilogy; therefore, and in addition to its technical achievements, unforgettable songs, endearing characters and a classically evil villainess (the Wicked Witch was a lot scarier than the obnoxious eyeball beacon atop Radio Mordor), I can well understand why AFI voted WoO over FotR.
But one thing everyone should keep in mind: The Lord of the Rings books sit atop nearly every greatest novel list in creation. The Wizard of Oz books? Ummm...not so much.
THE EARL OF SANDWICH: "Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"
JOHN WILKES: That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."
John Wilkes (1727-1797)
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Patty
Elvenhome
Jun 19 2008, 2:27am
Post #23 of 49
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"But one thing everyone should keep in mind: The Lord of the Rings books sit atop nearly every greatest novel list in creation. The Wizard of Oz books? Ummm...not so much."
I wish the AFI could have brought themselves to view LotR as a whole, though. But your comment on universal accessibility is justly made, too.
Hanging out with the Lonely Isle elves.
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silneldor
Gondolin
Jun 19 2008, 3:22am
Post #24 of 49
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If one looks at the complete personal commitment
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of people on a grand scale over a period of years who very much believed in the great beauty of a man's work and another to bring it to life, i cannot see how these two movies can be compared in ways where they can thought as close to equals. I feel the WoO is a wonderful movie with a fine theme that leaves one warmed but the LOTR's take one's heart and soul and returns it profoundly changed.
"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."
Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez
May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!
In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo
By El~Cugu
From the website: 'The Realm of Manwe'
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Lilia
Lindon
Jun 19 2008, 3:34am
Post #25 of 49
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Oz always frightened me as a kid. I know so many little kids who really get into the movie, and one of my best friends has always loved it. But me, not so much. I've never been a huge fan of movie musicals and there was a lot about Oz that scared me.
So for me, LOTR IS the best fantasy film. Tolkien's work was so amazing and it translated so beautifully onto film. Oz was done well, but overall I like LOTR so much better and think it should have been first. Then Oz.
Shuya - "I only have three nerd shirts and only get to wear them about twice a year"
Me - "Wow, I have a lot more than that. And I wear them all the time."
Deej - "You are such a bigger nerd than we are"
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