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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
Heads up for June 6th judgment on C. Tolkien's lawsuit.
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Woodyend
Gondor


Jun 5 2008, 4:05pm

Post #1 of 70 (1716 views)
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Heads up for June 6th judgment on C. Tolkien's lawsuit. Can't Post


Quote
<snip>
However, at a hearing on June 6 Christopher Tolkien will ask a Californian judge to back his claim that he can “terminate” film rights to The Hobbit. He is said to be furious with the New Line studio, which earned £3 billion from the Rings trilogy. Tolkien’s lawyers accuse New Line of “accounting chicanery”. Warner Bros, owner of New Line, declined to comment.
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/...m/article3999008.ece



So place your bets.
I think the court will find NL in breach of contract, and they should pay what is owed to the Tolkien Trust.

May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jun 5 2008, 4:38pm

Post #2 of 70 (681 views)
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Absolutely, they should pay. [In reply to] Can't Post

What Tolkien has had to go through with NL is balderdash! x 2!!



sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


Woodyend
Gondor


Jun 5 2008, 4:51pm

Post #3 of 70 (642 views)
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I wonder... [In reply to] Can't Post

If this means that Christopher Tolkien will have to appear in court himself, or if his representatives can appear in his place? I can see the poparotsy now, staking out the best place for the picture.Cool

May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!


merklynn
Lorien


Jun 5 2008, 5:38pm

Post #4 of 70 (742 views)
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So where are we now? [In reply to] Can't Post

So are we back where we were a couple of weeks ago, when Times Online first published their article about this full of factual errors and false assumptions? What could we really draw out of the article in the end? That the law suit thing was still moving along. This latest article gives us a date but adds nothing new.

However, it does reiterrate this right to cancel the Hobbit films. So is the Times Online still full of baloney, or do we need to consider that yes, TH films are possibly going to get shut down before they really get off the ground?

Comment anyone?


Woodyend
Gondor


Jun 5 2008, 5:47pm

Post #5 of 70 (631 views)
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I only posted... [In reply to] Can't Post

the paragraph about the time and place of the lawsuit nothing else in the article.

May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!


merklynn
Lorien


Jun 5 2008, 5:53pm

Post #6 of 70 (602 views)
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Ok.... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Elven
Valinor


Jun 5 2008, 5:54pm

Post #7 of 70 (652 views)
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It is not the only part of the Suit & the Courts determination .... [In reply to] Can't Post

The Plantiffs - which are more than the 'Tolkien Family' are asking the courts to determine certain parts of the contract "The Agreements" - which New Line Katja defends saying that what the Planiffs are asking for within 'The Agreements', do not exist.
One of these determinations is the right to terminate the Rights to the films and any further benefit from past, present or future film exploitations - which in turn will activate judgement on #3 below.



Plaintiffs look for the following judgement of outcome:
1. For compensatory damages in eccess of $150 million dollars;

2. For punative damages in an amount which, considering New Lines enormous worldwide wealth and income, is sufficient to punish New Line , to set an example and deter further such wrongful behaviour;
3. For a declaration that plaintiffs are entitled to terminate and cancel all future rights of New Line under the 1969 Agreements, including without limitation New Line's right to produce, distribute, and/or exploit future films based upon the Trilogy and/or the Films, as well as all rights to produce, distribute and/or exploit films based on The Hobbit, and without predjudice to the plaintiffs right to recover damages or to any other right or remedy of plaintiffs;
4. For a declaration that plaintiffs are entitled to receive 7.5% of the Gross Receipts (after the Artificial Payment Levy is reached) as to any films based upon Professor Tolkiens four literary works;
5. In the alternative, to the extent that the Court were to adopt any meaning of the 1969 Agreements contrary to the contentions of plaintiffs, that the 1969 Agreements be reformed to provide the meaning represented by New Lines predecessor-in-interest and understod by plaintiffs and their predecessors-in-interest and/or the intent of the parties to the 1969 Agreement; 6. For an accounting between defendants and plaintiffs;
7. For payments over to plaintiffs of the amount due from defendants as a result of the accounting;
8. For imposition of a constructive trust over all monies due and owing to plaintiffs, and any benefits and income derived therefrom by New Line;

9. For intrest at the maximum legal rate; and
10. for costs of suit and such other and further relief as the courts shall deem proper.


My thoughts ...
I think the Courts will determine in the Planiffs favour that the Agreements (Contract/s) are valid and that further legal action will proceed to determine the other aspects of the Suit.

I think tomorrows judgement will favour the plantiffs 80/20.

Cheers Elven x


Were off to Hobbiton finally!

Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!



(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jun 6 2008, 12:53am)


Smeagirl/Girllum
Gondor


Jun 5 2008, 7:50pm

Post #8 of 70 (605 views)
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As Kristin Thompson wrote on her blog, [In reply to] Can't Post

"this is probably a tempest in a teapot." So CT is speaking to or presenting something to the judge on June 6? That still tells us nothing about when the judge will issue a ruling. This is probably a very complex case, and there are going to be a lot more motions filed and other court proceedings going on before it's all done. Just look at how long the PJ - New Line dispute was going on before they settled.

I take all media coverage of lawsuits with a grain of salt. Legalese can be hard to understand at the best of times, and I'm sure even more so if you're trying to read something quickly to finish an article before deadline.

"He is a small thing, you say, this Gollum? Small, but great in mischief."



Eledhwen
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 5 2008, 8:15pm

Post #9 of 70 (601 views)
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Judgment? [In reply to] Can't Post

A US lawyer might know this answer better than me, but in the jurisdictions I do know about it's incredibly rare to get judgment of the day of the hearing. Much more likely that the case will be argued and the judge will go away and think about it for at least a few days.

Figwit Still Lives!



Calling for a Figwit cameo in The Hobbit since May 2008


Nickey08
Bree


Jun 5 2008, 9:26pm

Post #10 of 70 (575 views)
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Bottom line... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
TH films are possibly going to get shut down before they really get off the ground?

Comment anyone?


That is a very REAL possibility.
Mad

http://www.myspace.com/nickeydrayer


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor


Jun 5 2008, 9:40pm

Post #11 of 70 (630 views)
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No judgment, not even a hearing, really [In reply to] Can't Post

As I have repeatedly stated before in other threads here, nothing substantial is going to happen tomorrow. It is not a hearing, it is a standard case management conference, in which the the judge will talk to the lawyers about where the case is going. In all likelihood there won't even be a trial date set. At most, the court might order the parties to mediation, since both sides indicated a willingness to mediate in their case management conference statements. CHRISTOPHER TOLKIEN WILL NOT BE THERE!!!!!11 NO SUBSTANTIVE DECISIONS ABOUT ANY ASPECTS REGARDING THE CASE WILL BE DECIDED!

There is a hearing scheduled for June 24 (which the court wants to move to June 27) on New Line's demurrer and Motion to Strike. But those motions only involve two causes of action, one for fraud, and one for breach of a fiduciary duty. Even if New Line wins those motions, the only tangible result would be that they would be safe from punitive damages. It would have no bearing whatsoever on the issue of whether the plaintiffs would have the right to stop The Hobbit movies.

Here is the real kicker. Based on the language of the 1969 agreements, the plaintiffs would only have the opportunity to gain that right on a final determination by the court that New Line breached the agreements. Which means that there will be no decision on that issue until the case goes to trial, which is likely to be at least a year away and perhaps as much as several years. And then that decision can be appealed, which could delay things for another couple of years!

Unless a settlement is reached in the meanwhile, which would make it a moot point.

It really is disturbing to see such inaccurate reporting throughout the media (and including Kristin Thompson's blog).

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor


Jun 5 2008, 9:54pm

Post #12 of 70 (598 views)
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Even the CMC is postponed [In reply to] Can't Post

Checking the court records again, it appears that the court has requested that even the case management conference scheduled for tomorrow by continued (postponed) until 6/27 so that it can be done at the same time as the hearing on the demurrer and motion to strike (which makes perfect sense).

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'


Nickey08
Bree


Jun 5 2008, 10:16pm

Post #13 of 70 (558 views)
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Thank you for posting this! [In reply to] Can't Post

For those of us who are depending on employment out of this - it's a very important issue.

http://www.myspace.com/nickeydrayer


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jun 5 2008, 11:26pm

Post #14 of 70 (555 views)
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Good luck! [In reply to] Can't Post

You must so so excited at the prospects of two Hobbit films heading your way. What kind of movie work have you done so far?

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Nickey08
Bree


Jun 6 2008, 12:08am

Post #15 of 70 (557 views)
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...um... [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, to answer your question, this will be technically the first film (keeping fingers crossed). I was invited down to NZ in 2006 for a different project that never panned out. I'm nervous as hell, because I'd prefer to cut my teeth on a small film. Regardless of what happens (whether I get hired or not), it's always beautiful down here, it's always interesting, and the folks here are always wonderfully sweet!
...thanks for asking...
Here's some of my work - most of it sucks:
http://www.myspace.com/nickeydrayerUnsure


http://www.myspace.com/nickeydrayer


merklynn
Lorien


Jun 6 2008, 12:49am

Post #16 of 70 (509 views)
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Wow nice work! [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you have a deviantart page? I can't stand MySpace and have a hard time navigating it. And you have my admiration for being in the movie industry and your prospective work on The Hobbit. Good luck, we will all be rooting for you! Smile

Here's hoping Miramar becomes as famaliar a name as Hollywood someday. I can dream can't I?


Nickey08
Bree


Jun 6 2008, 1:00am

Post #17 of 70 (507 views)
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Thank you so much for the confidence! [In reply to] Can't Post

If you do get the chance to come down and visit, hopefully you'll get the chance to meet Richard Taylor in person! I'm convinced he's the nicest person on the planet!
Blush

http://www.myspace.com/nickeydrayer


Woodyend
Gondor


Jun 6 2008, 1:06am

Post #18 of 70 (540 views)
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I’m not going to pretend....... [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand even half of this suit but, will this delay the movies that have yet to even begin to get started?


Quote
Here is the real kicker. Based on the language of the 1969 agreements, the plaintiffs would only have the opportunity to gain that right on a final determination by the court that New Line breached the agreements. Which means that there will be no decision on that issue until the case goes to trial, which is likely to be at least a year away and perhaps as much as several years. And then that decision can be appealed, which could delay things for another couple of years!


May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jun 6 2008, 1:49am

Post #19 of 70 (529 views)
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It's a notable point [In reply to] Can't Post

that so many of the key people involved in Weta et al are genuinely nice people. That's got to make working there much easier when you're nostril-deep in long, intense jobs!

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor


Jun 6 2008, 2:00am

Post #20 of 70 (511 views)
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Hard To Say [In reply to] Can't Post

New Line/Warners seems to be operating on the assumption that there will not be a problem, and I think they are on pretty solid legal grounds on that point (although I do think that they will end up agreeing to or being ordered to pay money to the plaintiffs). Is possible, however, that there will be sudden rude interruption to the festivities.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'


Nickey08
Bree


Jun 6 2008, 2:03am

Post #21 of 70 (486 views)
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We'll see what happens in December [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been hoping for those long hours you referred to ever since I saw the film "Frighteners" in the theater, and then "Heavenly Creatures" on video. As much as I appreciate the work and the dedication WETA has put forth towards the "Lord of the Rings" series, it's not why I'm drawn to them. You probably realize that they put that kind of dedication into EVERY project that comes to them. Whenever you watch a Wingnut film, or something that has had WETA's touch to it, a person gets the overall feeling that the people that made the film really had a s***load of fun while making it! That alone makes the movie a more enjoyable experience for the audience, rather than one that was conceived in a harsher environment.

With regards to this settlement, I certainly hope that it doesn't affect the films too badly. It would be not only a blow to the audiences around the world, but a blow to the New Zealand economy. With that said, I think I've said enough for awhile.

http://www.myspace.com/nickeydrayer


Woodyend
Gondor


Jun 6 2008, 2:16am

Post #22 of 70 (589 views)
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First thank you so much for helping to clarify this tangled..... [In reply to] Can't Post

web that is the suit. Now do I understand this correctly, that tomorrows hearing may decide to postpone itself until 6/27? Which is the date for the other hearings? So that would mean no new news until 6/27 at the earliest date?
The reason I am asking is I have circled these dates on my calendar at home, for a reminder to look for the latest news on the suit.

In Reply To
Checking the court records again, it appears that the court has requested that even the case management conference scheduled for tomorrow by continued (postponed) until 6/27 so that it can be done at the same time as the hearing on the demurrer and motion to strike (which makes perfect sense).


May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor


Jun 6 2008, 2:22am

Post #23 of 70 (498 views)
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Yes, that is essentially correct [In reply to] Can't Post

Moreover, even if tomorrows hearing happens, which I doubt, there won't be any real news come out of it. Even the hearing scheduled for 6/27 is extremely unlikely to produce any news on the subject that we are all interested in (namely, whether the Hobbit movies could possibly be stopped).

And, you are welcome. Smile

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'


Woodyend
Gondor


Jun 6 2008, 2:30am

Post #24 of 70 (484 views)
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Thank you for your patience [In reply to] Can't Post

and your willingness to explain things in words that I can get my head around. Smile

May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!


Woodyend
Gondor


Jun 6 2008, 2:33am

Post #25 of 70 (480 views)
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Thanks Elven for posting this info. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think your 80/20 is spot on, and fair to both parties.

May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!

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