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Hamfast Gamgee
Dor-Lomin
Apr 25, 7:52am
Post #1 of 5
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The Ridrs of Rohan and there relationships with their horses
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I was in the pub the other evening listening to a pub quiz as you do when a Lotr question came up. The question was who owned Shadowfax and the answer Theoden. Technically speaking. Now I do not expect the average or even good pubquiz person to have ghe same vast knowledge, understanding and appreciation of Tolkien that we all have here, but I wonder if technically this was true. did the Riders of Rohan actually own their horses or was it more of a partnership? There was that story at the beginning of Rohan about one of the Kings and Shadowfax's ancestors which suggests that some kind of deal was made but it probably worked both ways. Shadowfax was running wild when Gandalf tamed him maybe the horse could sense there was some evil at work in the Rohan court and was not coming back till it was sorted.
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CuriousG
Gondolin
Apr 25, 11:10am
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If anyone gets that CS Lewis Narnia book title reference.
Anyway, I think Gandalf would say he doesn't own Shadowfax, and they're friends and partners but not master/pet. But it seems to me that Theoden owned Shadowfax before Gandalf wooed him away:
For Gandalf took the horse that is called Shadowfax, the most precious of all the king’s steeds, chief of the Mearas, which only the Lord of the Mark may ride. For the sire of their race was the great horse of Eorl that knew the speech of Men. Seven nights ago Shadowfax returned; but the king’s anger is not less, for now the horse is wild and will let no man handle him.’
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noWizardme
Gondolin
Apr 27, 5:25pm
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Assuming you can only give something that you think your property...
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'But as for your gift, lord, I will choose one that will fit my need: swift and sure. Give me Shadowfax! He was only lent before, if loan we may call it. But now I shall ride him into great hazard, setting silver against black: I would not risk anything that is not my own.'
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"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
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Felagund
Nargothrond
Apr 27, 7:11pm
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The mearas were in a category of their own, with regard to their association with the House of Eorl, so I'm not sure what that tells us about the Riders of Rohan more generally. With regard to the relationship between the Rohirrim and their ancestors, and 'regular' horses there are a handful of references of interest:
[Éomer replying to Gimli] 'Some years ago the Lord of the Black Land wished to purchase horses of us at great price, but we refused him, for he puts beasts to evil use.' ('The Riders of Rohan', LotR)
They [the Éothéod] loved best the plains, and delighted in horses and all feats of horsemanship... ('Appendix A', LotR)
He [Léod, father of Eorl] was a tamer of wild horses... ('Appendix A', LotR)
They [the Éothéod]... were great breeders of horses and riders renowned for their skill and endurance... ('Cirion & Eorl', Unfinished Tales)
... the Plague came with a cold winter when horses and men were driven into shelter and their [the Éothéod's] low wooden houses and stables were thronged... 'Cirion & Eorl', Unfinished Tales)
All of the above, I reckon, certainly indicates the importance of horses, horse-rearing and horsemanship in Rohirric culture, identity and tradition, and that their horses were well-cared for. I don't think this rules out that the Rohirrim regarded themselves as the 'owners' of their horses, even if their appears to have been a hint of symbiosis as well.
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
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Meneldor
Doriath
Apr 30, 4:05am
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Sort of vaguely tangential to the point of this thread...
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One of my favorite youtubers, Lindybeige, released a video in which he interviews a rider and re-enactor with considerable experience training horses for cavalry action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zviMg5Bkt8g
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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