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noWizardme
Gondolin

Mar 18 2025, 8:09pm
Post #1 of 15
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Elrond's squirrel
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“Time was when a squirrel could go from tree to tree from what is now the Shire to Dunland west of Isengard. In those lands I journeyed once, and many things wild and strange I knew.” Elrond speaking, Council of Elrond I liked that image of the squirrel and supposed that it was one of Tolkien's originals... ...until I read:
“I had once read somewhere that in King John’s reign a squirrel could travel from the Severn to the Humber without touching ground” — Between the Woods and the Water: On Foot to Constantinople from the Hook of Holland: The Middle Danube to the Iron Gates by Patrick Leigh Fermor 1986 [Although published in the 1980s, the book records a journey Fermor made in 1934. The book was written after Fermor's notebooks of the trip were unexpectedly returned to him after many years in which he thought they were lost.] Well it doesn't sound like Fermor is quoting Tolkien, and if this idea is taken from Fermor's 1934 notebooks then of course he couldn't be. So it looked like there was some earlier source. And then I read...
“The idea that Britain's primeval residents were restricted to naturally open areas within an otherwise hostile forest was cemented by Sir Cyril Fox, one of England's foremost archaeologists of the twentieth century, in his 1932 work, The Personality of Britain. Fox conceived of the extent of Britain's ancient forests in squirrel miles. The story of this apocryphal rodent, crossing vast distances through the treetops without ever touching the ground, has been around for centuries, although I have never been able to uncover the true origins of the phrase. The squirrel has scurried across the skylines of everywhere from the Iberian Peninsula to the Eastern United States. At some point, it made the leap into the axioms of British history, such that, in 1918, the architect Maurice B. Adams could claim that, during the Middle Ages, open country was unknown, and England was so densely wooded that it was said a squirrel could traverse the kingdom without touching the ground. In the conclusion to The Personality of Britain, Fox took a squirrel's-eye view of the landscape at the dawn of the Iron Age, around 2,500 years ago. The forest at this time ‘was in a sense unbroken, for without emerging from its canopy a squirrel could traverse the country from end to end’, he wrote, echoing the old cliché. But Fox's squirrel would have needed to do some route planning to achieve this feat. His treetop journey would have been punctuated by patches of open land, where he may have observed humans milking cows and tending crops. It was in these forest-free stretches, according to Fox, that the civilisation of Britain truly began. Nature’s Ghosts, by Sophie Yeo, Harper North 2024 More recent research has pushed back the time when the squirrel would already have had quite a challenge - due to substantial clearings made by large animals, including humans. And an interesting theme of Sophie Yeo's book, I thought, was the conflicting ideas people have of what the prelapsarian countryside was like, when that's something they wish to restore. But I also wonder whether other forum members have seen this idea of 'squirrel miles' (as Yeo puts it) in other books?
~~~~~~ "I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
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CuriousG
Gondolin

Mar 18 2025, 8:18pm
Post #2 of 15
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Beware of tall tales from old-timers
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I remember when a squirrel could travel from London to Paris without ever leaving the trees.
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Eldy
Dor-Lomin

Mar 19 2025, 12:18am
Post #3 of 15
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I didn't know, or had forgotten, that the concept of squirrel miles had been around for so long, though I had of course heard of the (supposedly?) unbroken primeval forests of England. When I was younger I heard similar things said about the mid-Atlantic United States, where I'm from, though I don't know how far back one would have to go for that to be true, nor do I recall hearing it described in terms of squirrel travel.
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uncle Iorlas
Nargothrond

Mar 26 2025, 7:05pm
Post #4 of 15
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they say Americans will use anything but the metric system
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Does anybody have a conversion table for flying squirrel miles?
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noWizardme
Gondolin

Mar 26 2025, 7:23pm
Post #5 of 15
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I'd have thought that the problem with flying squirrel miles
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...would be that you get a seat next to a nut.
~~~~~~ "I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
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Eldy
Dor-Lomin

Mar 27 2025, 7:56pm
Post #6 of 15
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Not to mention sitting next to someone bright-eyed and bushy-tailed on a red-eye flight.
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noWizardme
Gondolin

Mar 28 2025, 7:00pm
Post #7 of 15
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I gave up flying Mordor Airways because it seemed like all the flights were on the Red Eye.
~~~~~~ "I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
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noWizardme
Gondolin

Mar 28 2025, 7:05pm
Post #8 of 15
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Maybe we need some more Middle-earthy measurements
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How many ent strides to the mile, or Leaps of Beren. Or, if all nine members of the Fellowship were laid end to end, would we have a Tolkien--Dorothy Parker mashup?
~~~~~~ "I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
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CuriousG
Gondolin

Mar 30 2025, 2:17am
Post #9 of 15
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Next you can explain how many fortnights make up a league //
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Lissuin
Doriath

Mar 30 2025, 7:59pm
Post #10 of 15
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How many fort Knights make up A-League you ask, CuriousG?
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Australia created A-League in April 2004. It succeeded the NSL, the Australian National Soccer League. Eight teams were to be part of the new national competition, with 7 teams from Australia plus one team from New Zealand, the New Zealand Knights Football Club.
From 2004-2007, A-League consisted of 48 doughty New Zealand Knights plus the 7 Australian teams. Sadly, today no Knights are to be found in A-League. New Zealand Knights Football Club (formed from the Football Kingz Football Club in 2004) were the only professional association football club in New Zealand before they became defunct in 2007. They were replaced by Wellington Phoenix. (some)References: Wikipedia. NB: soccer/football - same difference, y'all get that, right?
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CuriousG
Gondolin

Mar 31 2025, 8:29pm
Post #11 of 15
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I can spot Meneldor in his SCA gear a mile away
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and now we know he was a NZ football/soccer knight.
with 7 teams from Australia plus one team from New Zealand Hmmm, 7 for one group, 1 for another. Who got 3 "teams" and who got 9? Brunei and Indonesia? And why did the team go defunct, unless the knights only played at night, and staying up until 2 am to watch a game start was too much even for ardent fans?
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Meneldor
Doriath

Mar 31 2025, 11:40pm
Post #12 of 15
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Of course you know that now that you've seen through my disguise and discovered my secret identity, you cannot be allowed to share that knowledge with the world. Please don't take it personally, and know that I hold you in the highest regard.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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CuriousG
Gondolin

Apr 1 2025, 4:20am
Post #13 of 15
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Meneldor the Zealous gained fame as a soccer player, exploiting a little-known soccer rule that allowed players to hack the ball to pieces if they sported 2 axes at once, and thus score a point. "It looked like an orc head, I swear!" was his common excuse to judges, who in general doubled as orc extras in Peter Jackson films and thus rather skittish and deferential due to Meneldor's head count.
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CuriousG
Gondolin

Apr 2 2025, 12:05am
Post #15 of 15
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Kickball was a gentler alternative to "crossbow tag." //
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