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oliphaunt
Lorien
Nov 12, 11:51am
Post #1 of 34
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**Merry Character Study #1 - From Hobbiton to the Old Forest: Merry Hits the Road**
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Merry was born in T.A. 2982, about 14 years after Frodo, two years after Sam, and eight years before Pippin. He's the scion of the Brandybucks, and has a Tookish bloodline through his mother.
We first meet Merry helping Frodo on the day after Bilbo's Long Expected Party. Merry is diplomatic, but neither unctuous nor in the least intimidated by Lobelia and Otho. He's acting as Frodo's majordomo, but there's no hint of a financial arrangement. They must be very good friends, and perhaps Merry doesn't have enough to do around Brandybuck Hall. As Hobbit gentry, Frodo and Merry don't need paying jobs.
Lobelia, frustrated by Frodo, tells him:
'You don't belong here; you're no Baggins - you - your're a Brandybuck!'
'Did you hear that, Merry? That was an insult, if you like,' said Frodo as he shut the door on her.
'It was a compliment,' said Merry Brandybuck, 'and so, of course, not true.' - A Long Expected Party
Merry displays his wit, defuses Frodo's irritation with Lobelia, and, subtly, jabs Frodo who seemed to agree with Lobelia that being deemed a 'Brandybuck' is insulting.
1. Is this friendly roasting the sign of a good relationship? Is it a hobbit-ish behavior? Bilbo delivered quite a few snappy lines during his party speech. Is Merry commenting on the relative merits of being a "Baggins" vs a "Brandybuck"?
After dismissing Lobelia, and ejecting a few treasure-hunting youngsters, Frodo tells Merry: 'Lock the door, and don't open it to anyone today, not even if they bring a battering ram.' Then he went to revive himself with a belated cup of tea. At this point, Gandalf arrives to tell Frodo he's leaving and to warn Frodo to avoid using the ring, to 'keep it safe, and keep it secret!'
2. Where exactly is Merry while Gandalf and Frodo are having this conversation? Since he locked the door, presumably he's inside Bag End and could well have heard Gandalf's arrival.
In 'The Shadow of the Past', Merry's given name (Meriadoc) is revealed, as is his suspicion that Frodo 'visited the Elves at times, as Bilbo had done.' Merry (and Frodo's 'other friends', presumably Sam, Pippin, and Fatty) are reported as watching Frodo anxiously, concerned about his encounters with 'strange wayfarers' that began passing through the Shire.
3. As hobbits are given to gossip, it was probably fairly easy for Merry et. al to gather intelligence about Frodo. They all knew Bilbo and were surely familiar with his oddities. Were they concerned that Frodo was becoming like Bilbo?
4. Why does no-one remember that Merry's name is Meriadoc? Is it just a nickname/pet name, or is something more being suggested? Would going by his given name have obligated Merry to act in a different manner? Is there an identifiable difference between characters who have nicknames/pet names vs those who do not, or have honorific names? Or, like Sharkey and Wormtounge, nasty names? I can't imagine elves having cute names for each other.
Gandalf arrives in Hobbiton and reveals the provenance of the Ring. Just as he warns Frodo that 'the enemy has many spies and many ways of hearing', Gandalf catches Sam spying outside the window of Bag End. Frodo tells Sam 'if you really care about me, you will keep that dead secret. See? If you don't, if you even breathe a word of what you've heard here, then I hope Gandalf will turn you into a spotted toad.' Gandalf sentences Sam to 'go away with Mr. Frodo'.
Frodo uses the Shire grapevine to spread information: 'Merry Brandybuck is looking out for a nice little hole for me, or perhaps a small house.'
As a matter of fact with Merry's help he had already chosen and bought a little house at Crickhollow in the country beyond Bucklebury. To all but Sam he pretended he was going to settle down there permanently. - Three is Company Merry is still acting as Frodo's majordomo, presumably trusted with Frodo's financial affairs.
5. Are we really supposed to believe Sam will keep secrets from Merry and the others? Hobbits are given to gossip...and the friends were anxious about Frodo even before the plan to sell Bag End and move to Crickhollow.
Frodo hosts a small farewell/birthday feast at nearly empty Bag End for Merry, Pippin, Fatty and Folco and The thought that he would so soon have to part with his young friends weighed on his heart. He wondered how he would break it to them.
The four younger hobbits were, however, in high spirits...- Three is Company
The next morning Merry takes charge of moving the last of Frodo's luggage to Crickhollow: 'Someone must get there and warm the house before you arrive,' said Merry. 'Well, see you later - the day after tomorrow, if you don't go to sleep on the way!' Merry is a leader, and competent, and is willing give Frodo orders.
After an eventful trek across the Shire (Elves! Black Riders. The indomitable Farmer Maggot.), the hiking hobbits see Merry riding out of the fog near Bucklebury Ferry: 'I was beginning to wonder if you would turn up at all today, and I was just going back to supper. When it grew foggy I came across and rode up towards Stock to see if you had fallen in any ditches. - A Shortcut to Mushrooms
6. Majordomo and mother-hen? Worried, but not worried enough to miss supper?
Merry guides the hobbits onto the ferry and poles across the Brandywine. Merry is comfortable handling a boat, which we learn is a trait uncommon in most Shire hobbits, though usual in Buckland. In Buckland hobbits also lock their doors at night, due to the unsettling proximity of the Old Forest.
After the river crossing, the hobbits spy a crawling black figure on the far bank. Merry, who did not encounter the Black Riders, is not particularly perturbed, and rides ahead to the Crickhollow house to prepare dinner with Fatty.
When the travelers arrive at the house, Merry greets them with three warm baths ready.
7. Mother-hen indeed. Servant leadership?
After supper, Merry initiates the conversation about the events at the ferry crossing, especially Farmer Maggot's obvious unease and his guesses about the Black Riders. He goes on to say: 'Old Maggot is a shrewd fellow, ' said Merry. 'A lot goes on behind his round face that does not come out in his talk.'
8. Projecting much, Merry?
Finally, just as Frodo is preparing to tell his friends more of the truth, Merry reveals just how much they have already figured out. Merry also tells Frodo they are not letting him go alone with Sam. And, most shockingly, that he knew about Bilbo's invisibility ring, and had even looked in the Red Book. Merry kept all that knowledge secret until he recruited the other hobbits earlier in the year. This brings up the issue of trust which Merry addresses:
You can trust us to stick to you through thick and thin - to the bitter end. And you can trust us to keep any secret of yours - closer than you keep it yourself. But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo. -- A Conspiracy Unmasked
9. If Frodo trusted Merry, would he have told him more about his plans? Was he counting on Merry's reliability rather than his trustworthiness? A clock that rings the alarm at the time you set is reliable. But if you forget to set the alarm it will reliably not wake you. There's no judgement, no anticipation of outcomes, no going beyond the expected. Frodo had Merry acting as majordomo, fully involved in his financial transactions, but did not read him in on the matter of the Ring.
10. What about Merry? Did later events justify his curious spying on Bilbo? Did friendship justify keeping tabs on Frodo? Is Tolkien making a case for loyal discerning disobedience? It's not the first time we've seen this: recall Bilbo and the Arkenstone. And not the last time we will see it, with Merry and other characters.
Merry isn't all talk. As it turns out, he's carefully planned for the expedition with Frodo, with ponies, supplies, and the subterfuge of disguising Fatty as Frodo at Crickhollow. Merry is competent at financial, physical, and strategic planning. He can play his cards close to the chest, and persuade others to action. Frodo consults Merry when deciding when to leave Crickhollow, and what route to take. Merry reveals that he has previously entered the Old Forest, and the party decides to go that way. Merry organizes the hobbits departure, and leads them into the Old Forest. He offers information about the Old Forest, and advice:
'I should not shout, if I were you,' said Merry. 'It does more harm than good.' ... 'I should not sing any more at present. Wait till we do get to the edge, and then we'll turn and give them a rousing chorus!' He spoke cheerfully, and if he felt any great anxiety, he did not show it. The others did not answer. They were depressed. -- The Old Forest
Despite Merry's confident leadership, the hobbits are drawn into the Withywindle River valley, 'the queerest part of the whole wood.' Merry forges ahead as leader. And leads them right to Old Man Willow, who traps Merry and Pippin inside his trunk.
When Frodo asks 'Why did we ever come into this dreadful Forest?' it's a rhetorical question. Still, Sam doesn't remind him that Merry led them there, and tries (ineffectually) to help with a rescue. Frodo is described as helpless, confused, and perhaps childish with his "shrill" voice. When Tom Bombadil arrives, Sam tells him 'Master Merry's being squeezed in a crack!'
After Tom rescues them, the hobbits continue on to his house. There is no longer any mention of Merry acting as leader.
In fact, none of the hobbits are mentioned by name in this passage - only as "the hobbits" and "they". At the house, there are no introductions, and Goldberry only speaks directly to Frodo. Neither Tom or Goldberry say the names of any of the hobbits. Tom tells the hobbits his name and Goldberry's, but does not ask theirs. He also re-names their five ponies Sharp-ears, Wise-nose, Swish-tail, Bumpkin, and White-socks.
When the hobbits leave Tom's house Frodo leads the way, but does not fare any better than Merry did in the Old Forest, and the hobbits need a second rescue from a barrow. After Tom leaves them on the road to Bree, Merry describes Bree:
'There are hobbits in Bree,' said Merry, 'as well as Big Folk. I daresay it will be homelike enough. The Pony is a good in by all accounts. My people ride out there now and again.'
'It may be all we could wish,' said Frodo; 'but it is outside the Shire all the same. Don't make yourselves too much at home!' -- Fog on the Barrow Downs
11. Is Merry responsible for their entrapment by OMW? Was he over-confident after his success in leading the conspiracy and planning the trip out of the Shire? Why does Merry drop out of his leader role? When Merry expounds about Bree, is Frodo's response a subtle rebuke? Is this about Merry, or more about Frodo's growing more assertive?
12. Sam calls him 'Master Merry', which refers to Merry's standing in the social hierarchy of the Shire. Merry was at Frodo's last birthday party in Bag End with Pippin, Folco and Fatty. And, obvious by no mention, Sam was not. It doesn't seem to bother Sam. Or Merry.
13. Merry is less frightened than the other hobbits: At the ferry crossing, he is not perturbed by the crawling figure. He remains cheerful in the Old Forest when the others were depressed. He's not worried about going into Bree where the Big Folk live, and expects it to be homelike. Is Merry brave, is he acting brave to be a good leader, or doesn't he have the sense to be afraid?
14. Other than scolding Pippin for making a mess in the bathroom at Crickhollow, and getting trapped with Pippin inside OMW, I didn't notice much of a special relationship between Merry and Pippin. Did I miss anything between those two, or does their relationship revolve around Frodo?
Off-topic, but I noticed Tom and Goldberry never ask the hobbits' names. Approaching Bree, Frodo says 'the name of Baggins must NOT be mentioned.' It didn't get mentioned to Tom, either, as there were no names offered or requested. But Tom knew about the Ring, and was waiting for Frodo to wander down to OMW, so presumably he knew exactly who Frodo was. Tom gave the ponies new names which they answered to for the rest of their lives. He named Old Man Willow. He told the hobbits the name of Barliman Butterbur at the Prancing Pony. He said: 'Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless?' Did he know all the hobbits names as well? Was he careful NOT to say any of their names? When Tom names someone or something, is his natural power acting upon them?
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
Nov 12, 9:08pm
Post #2 of 34
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Here goes, probably bit by bit.
1. Is this friendly roasting the sign of a good relationship? Is it a hobbit-ish behavior? Bilbo delivered quite a few snappy lines during his party speech. Is Merry commenting on the relative merits of being a "Baggins" vs a "Brandybuck"?
And " . . . Frodo who seemed to agree with Lobelia that being deemed a 'Brandybuck' is insulting." I always thought that both Frodo and Merry were exchanging mock insults here, Frodo pretending (with maybe a wink) that he's insulted by being called a Brandybuck, and then Merry responding in kind--and also doing all that witty diffusing thing, too, because certainly Lobelia did annoy Frodo in a bunch of ways here, and in the early chapters Merry is consistently the level-headed, practical, mature--if sardonic at times--voice of reason.
With Frodo, being Frodo, and also a good friend of Merry's whom he certainly knew to be a Brandybuck, I find it hard to believe he'd insult his friend by being openly insulted himself by the same name designation.
2. Where exactly is Merry while Gandalf and Frodo are having this conversation? Since he locked the door, presumably he's inside Bag End and could well have heard Gandalf's arrival. Ah, well, I never thought of that! It always seemed to be a private conversation, but I'm not sure it's hard to imagine Merry perhaps listening at the keyhole for a bit, although it's unclear whether he could have heard anything.
3. As hobbits are given to gossip, it was probably fairly easy for Merry et. al to gather intelligence about Frodo. They all knew Bilbo and were surely familiar with his oddities. Were they concerned that Frodo was becoming like Bilbo? It does say that Frodo often wandered off by himself, and sometimes at night, and that Merry and Pippin "suspected that he visited the elves at times, as Bilbo had done." They also would have observed along with "people," as it says, that Frodo was showing the same signs of resistance to aging as Bilbo had. I'm not sure up till now there's any indication that his friends are worried that he's acting and becoming physically a little bit Bilbo-ish. There doesn't to me seem to be any reason to worry, even with those things being so. But the book does say that when Frodo reached the same age that Bilbo had when his adventures began, all the looking at maps and all the wonderings and wanderings, and more and more doing so by himself, seemed to trigger something in his friends since it says they "watched him anxiously."
I'm not really sure why they should be anxious in particular about these changes, as it wasn't likely he was becoming mentally unstable or likely to suddenly do something deliberately risky. But maybe simply because it was a change and that he was withdrawing from them would be enough to make a set of friends anxious, especially if they thought he was likely to disappear on adventures without them. And possibly the "rumors of strange things happening in the world outside," may have added to their worries, in case he in inadvertently wandered right into danger. But it's all pretty unclear.
"What's in a Name": I'm going to group 4, 12, and your last paragraph in here for some thoughts.
4. Why does no-one remember that Merry's name is Meriadoc? Is it just a nickname/pet name, or is something more being suggested? Would going by his given name have obligated Merry to act in a different manner? Is there an identifiable difference between characters who have nicknames/pet names vs those who do not, or have honorific names? Or, like Sharkey and Wormtounge, nasty names? I can't imagine elves having cute names for each other.
I have the impression, although I'm not British, that there is a British or at least an English tradition in that era at least of giving people nicknames, usually starting at school somewhere, and then referring to them by those nicknames for the rest of their lives. (In fact, I wonder if that was a tradition in the English-speaking world in general in the early to mid 20th century. My dad's friend group at college all had nicknames for each other based on the seven dwarves! I won't tell you which one his was, but as he informed my mother all about it over 10 years later at their marriage, I'm thinking those names were still extant to some degree among those friends.  )
Anyway, as an illustration of what it seems to me to be an English nickname tradition, Elgar's Enigma Variations came to mind.
Here's a short quote from Wikipedia about it, and then a link to the actual music if anybody's interested. (It really is a wonderful piece, although nothing to do with this here in particular except about the names.) "Elgar dedicated the piece to 'my friends pictured within' and in the score each variation is prefaced the initials, name or nickname of the friend depicted. As was common with painted portraits of the time, Elgar's musical portraits depict their subjects at two levels. Each movement conveys a general impression of its subject's personality. In addition, many of them contain a musical reference to a specific characteristic or event, such as a laugh, a habit of speech or a memorable conversation."
The music: https://youtu.be/...?feature=shared&t=33
With all of that being said, yes, it's just a nickname, and in the nature of nicknames of that sort, certainly more is being suggested as the nature of someone who is cheery and not easily rattled.
As far as being obligated to act differently if he had to use his proper name, I think it's the other way around. If he had always been referred to by his proper name, he may have been treated differently and therefore would've acted differently especially since there may have been different expectations based on a more formal/ socially distant impression that would've given. Nicknames, being informal, tend to denote close or affectionate relationships; and among adults, those of more or less equal standing. You wouldn't refer either to the electrician or the kitchen maid by a nickname. And that, I think, maybe why Sam doesn't have much of a nickname--but simply a shortening of his proper name, which reflects on number 12, below.
There is an exception, though, which is illustrated by Sharkey and Wormtongue, where subordinates or people of a lower social class mock those above them by the secret use of nicknames just among themselves–never to be mentioned to the actual lord or social superiors. In Wormtongue's case, though, there seems to be an exception to pretty much all of these apparent societal expectations in naming. But it's probably because Wormtongue was an exception to just about anybody's social norms!
12. Sam calls him 'Master Merry', which refers to Merry's standing in the social hierarchy of the Shire. Merry was at Frodo's last birthday party in Bag End with Pippin, Folco and Fatty. And, obvious by no mention, Sam was not. It doesn't seem to bother Sam. Or Merry. Names and titles, unlike the current era, have I think throughout history been powerful indications of status and position, high low or middle, and a powerful way to influence one's own concept of oneself and of course everybody else. The social hierarchy was simply taken for granted, so of course it was "Master Merry" and not "Master Samwise." and that being so, Sam wouldn't have expected to be there, and it wouldn't have bothered Merry because he wouldn't have had any reason to think Sam's feelings would be hurt, since if their places were exchanged, the situation would simply be what he and everyone else expected.
* Off-topic, but I noticed Tom and Goldberry never ask the hobbits' names. Approaching Bree, Frodo says 'the name of Baggins must NOT be mentioned.' It didn't get mentioned to Tom, either, as there were no names offered or requested. But Tom knew about the Ring, and was waiting for Frodo to wander down to OMW, so presumably he knew exactly who Frodo was. Tom gave the ponies new names which they answered to for the rest of their lives. He named Old Man Willow. He told the hobbits the name of Barliman Butterbur at the Prancing Pony. He said: 'Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless?' Did he know all the hobbits names as well? Was he careful NOT to say any of their names? When Tom names someone or something, is his natural power acting upon them? Well, I simply had never thought or noticed that Tom never called them by name. I had the impression, somehow, that he'd met or had communication from Gandalf at some point sometime, and may have expected Frodo to be wandering around in his vicinity sometime, but I don't see how he could have expected the whole group of them. It does seem really significant that he never calls them by name.
I'm not sure what we are supposed to think about that, but I wish I'd noticed it before, because it can't be an accident. I think you may be onto something, about Things that Tom Names. But as usual with Tolkien, it's not spelled out and we get to sense the mystery rather than having a definite list of magical properties that Tom can do, which really wouldn't be much fun.
More later!
(This post was edited by Ethel Duath on Nov 12, 9:21pm)
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oliphaunt
Lorien
Nov 13, 12:42am
Post #3 of 34
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I want to mention Bilbo's riddling names with Smaug. And the Dwarves who rarely reveal their Khuzdul names. Treebeard said 'You'll be letting out your own right names if you're not careful.' Oh, and Gollum who had mostly forgotten he was Smeagol. Maybe an element of "True Name" in Middle Earth?
Not that I think Merry's nickname had any such great weight. So you're thinking of the hobbit nicknames as a nod to public-school habits? It may be interesting to see who (and when) uses "Merry" vs "Meriadoc" as we go along. Sam names him "Master Merry" which is at once deferential (Master) and familiar (Merry).
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No One in Particular
Lorien
Nov 13, 2:39am
Post #4 of 34
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Merry assumes a leadership role early based on his being more prepared for journey than the others, even Frodo. He's been preparing for this for some time, although I'm certain the other conspirators contributed a great deal. Later, after Tom's house and the Barrow, he sort of fades back as he is now out of his reckoning. We don't even know if he had ever been to Bree before, although it's certainly possible. Once beyond common hobbit knowledge he "levels out" with the others.
While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph
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Silvered-glass
Lorien
Nov 14, 7:14pm
Post #5 of 34
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Ignoring the pre-set questions here to make my views on Merry's character more readable...
I think Merry is realistic, dependable, down-to-earth, and good at organizing. He is in many ways a lot like the typical hobbit but has more courage and initiative and is much less timid. Growing up in a safe position of privilege similar to Pippin has probably a lot to do with this. Merry sees the world as a fundamentally safe place with predictable rules, and he likes it that way. He may not know all the rules, but he likes to learn more, especially about things that relate to his everyday life. This is why his later academic interests are about the material world around him rather than about distant subjects such as Elven poetry.
Merry could have visited Bree on business but he never bothered to go. Many hobbits would have been afraid of making such a long journey to the unfamiliar, but Merry simply didn't find the idea of Bree intriguing. Neither did he feel fascinated about the idea of seeing mountains. Merry does have a sense of curiosity though. This curiosity as well as concern is seen in Merry getting interested in the unusual things happening with Bilbo and Frodo. The key in this is that Bilbo and Frodo are close to Merry rather than far away.
As a leader, Merry shines most at managing the expected and routine stuff. He can prepare for the unexpected as long as that unexpected is within the range of things that are known to happen. The situation in the Old Forest happened because Merry couldn't conceive of such things and consequently didn't plan for them. Merry's rationalistic attitude to life can lead into him dismissing dangers that aren't real enough to him to have become integrated as part of his worldview.
Meriadoc is fine with being called Merry by everyone because he is secure in his position and has nothing to prove. A pettier hobbit would insist on being called Master Meriadoc, but Merry doesn't even mind when Sam uses the nickname.
Early on in the story Merry may appear to be fearless, but he isn't, really. In the later parts of the book Merry has to face what he really fears, which is loss of agency. Merry likes to be useful and taking care of matters and doesn't find such things a burden. This is why friendship is enough to get Merry to manage things for Frodo. Merry has plenty of money anyway, while true friends are precious.
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
Nov 14, 10:31pm
Post #6 of 34
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True, he isn't fearless, but he is comparatively brave compared to the rank and file Hobbit.
And yes, he's very practical, and altogether a good sort.
They're not alike otherwise, if Trusty's "grandpappy" is anything like Trusty himself especially in regard to intelligence and memory! But I keep thinking of "Old Reliable" in the Lady and the Tramp.
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oliphaunt
Lorien
Nov 14, 10:33pm
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So, when you say "levels out" does that mean just in terms of knowledge or skills as well? Was his leadership only possible due to the preparations that were made? Does he still have qualities that are valuable in a leader or a trusted agent. Or did his apparent ability to strategize, plan, and execute vanish in the Old Forest? I suppose we will find out more by following Merry into Bree and beyond, and I don't want to insert a spoiler alert here. But guessing we will see more of Merry's ability to plan, execute and lead later.
Getting lost in the Old Forest, trapped in OMW, and in a creepy barrow could surely take Merry's confidence down a notch. But hobbits are tougher than they appear....
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
Nov 14, 10:50pm
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Actually, that's the point I wanted to make.
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I think Merry remains a competent leader-type in regard to his personal character. But I think he "Peter-Principled" out of his skill and knowledge level, which isn't surprising, considering what unusual, out-of-the-way sorts of things they ran into rather suddenly!
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oliphaunt
Lorien
Nov 14, 11:13pm
Post #9 of 34
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Merry had been in the Old Forest before: 'several times; usually in daylight, of course, when the trees are sleepy and fairly quiet.'
He also spied on Bilbo, Frodo, and possibly Farmer Maggot. When Merry is discussing Farmer Maggot he says:
'Old Maggot is a shrewd fellow,' said Merry. 'A lot goes on behind his round face that does not come out in his talk. I've heard that he used to go into the Old Forest at one time, and he had the reputation of knowing a good many strange things
Merry might as well be talking about himself. He's kept plenty of intelligence to himself, he's very good at reading others, and he's been into the Old Forest several times.
But I do not posit that Merry's motivation for accompanying Frodo is primarily curiosity. He's going because Frodo is his friend: 'But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo...We are horribly afraid - but we are coming with you..'
Merry readily admitted to being afraid, but the story repeatedly points out how he's cheerful and unperturbed. Does he find strength and confidence by taking care of Frodo and the other hobbits?
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No One in Particular
Lorien
Nov 15, 1:34am
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Experiences mostly. He was most familiar with the back way out of the Shire, and as has been pointed out, he has even been in the old forest on prior occasions. Beyond the bonfire glade, however, his knowledge gets sketchy, then fails completely. We don't even know if he had ever ben to Bree. I tend to think not, since he probably would have mentioned it in the context of reaassuring Sam's misgivings. Certainly by the time they reach Bree, and probably by the time they meet Tom, Merry is runing out of personal experience.
While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph
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elentari3018
Rohan
Nov 15, 3:32am
Post #11 of 34
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1. Is this friendly roasting the sign of a good relationship? Is it a hobbit-ish behavior? Bilbo delivered quite a few snappy lines during his party speech. Is Merry commenting on the relative merits of being a "Baggins" vs a "Brandybuck"? I always thought that it is friendly hobbit banter and shows how close MErry and Frodo are. in the beginning of Fellowship it did say Frodo's closest friends were not close to him in age rather he confided more in Merry and Pippin when they became older.
I really liked what you quoted because from the beginning Tolkien wanted to establish the relationship Frodo and Merry have. The movies did a poor job with making the hobbit relations important as Tolkien did and this quote really made me appreciate Frodo and Merry's relationship.
5. Are we really supposed to believe Sam will keep secrets from Merry and the others? Hobbits are given to gossip...and the friends were anxious about Frodo even before the plan to sell Bag End and move to Crickhollow. As explained in one of my fave chapters of the books- "A Conspiracy Unmasked", Merry found out when BIlbo mistakenly wore the Ring to avoid the Sackville Bagginses and that is when the whole conspiracy started to form esp when Bilbo left the Shire and they were all anxious about Frodo leaving too.
I don't think Sam was capable to keep secrets either and when Sam was shown to be the main conspirator, i loved how surprised Frodo was. :D
9. If Frodo trusted Merry, would he have told him more about his plans? Was he counting on Merry's reliability rather than his trustworthiness? A clock that rings the alarm at the time you set is reliable. But if you forget to set the alarm it will reliably not wake you. There's no judgement, no anticipation of outcomes, no going beyond the expected. Frodo had Merry acting as majordomo, fully involved in his financial transactions, but did not read him in on the matter of the Ring. The Ring was too huge of a matter that Frodo left secret and i do not blame him. BUt as Pippin said, "Dear old Frodo! Did you ereally think you had thrown dust in all our eyes? You have not been nearly careful or clever enough for that!"
Shows how great these friends are to Frodo and thisj chapter really shows their friendship, camraderie and loyalty to each other which i really loved reading about.
10. What about Merry? Did later events justify his curious spying on Bilbo? Did friendship justify keeping tabs on Frodo? Is Tolkien making a case for loyal discerning disobedience? It's not the first time we've seen this: recall Bilbo and the Arkenstone. And not the last time we will see it, with Merry and other characters. Yes, i think his being curious was for the betterment of Frodo and it's because of strict loyalty and care and love for Frodo that they had this conspiracy and chose to follow Frodo. It shows also how Tolkien valued his own friendships with the TCBS and his friends that perished in the war how valued men friendships are.
Frodo and Merry's similarities are also something to mention because i think they are quite similar in practicality and wit. They are both planners and more thoughtful. I think it'll be interesting to even see Merry as a Ring-bearer and if he could be able to bear the Ring as long as Frodo. Interesting what if situation.
But going back to your questions, i believe that Merry as a majordomo works well for his practical side. I actually just learned what this was and think it is a good way to describe Merry's helping Frodo "move" to Crickhollow.
13. Merry is less frightened than the other hobbits: At the ferry crossing, he is not perturbed by the crawling figure. He remains cheerful in the Old Forest when the others were depressed. He's not worried about going into Bree where the Big Folk live, and expects it to be homelike. Is Merry brave, is he acting brave to be a good leader, or doesn't he have the sense to be afraid? I wonder if that's the reason he decided to go out of the Prancing Pony to get some air and then in turn had his first encounter with the Black Breath and the Black Rider.
This definitely wasn't an encounter for just anyone and Tolkien chose Merry to have any character's first encounter with these dangerous benigs. He recovered quite quickly from that. Is there a reason for that? To Show the resiliency of hobbits? As we read on we know this will not be the last time Merry has an encounter with the Black Riders and Witch-king.
His recovery from them twice shows how strong he really is.
"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
"He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK
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oliphaunt
Lorien
Nov 15, 9:01pm
Post #12 of 34
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Shows how great these friends are to Frodo and this chapter really shows their friendship, camraderie and loyalty to each other which i really loved reading about
Yes, I do agree the value of friendship is highlighted here. And the value is even greater later on.
It shows also how Tolkien valued his own friendships with the TCBS and his friends that perished in the war how valued men friendships are.
He honored well the young friends and fellow soldiers lost during the war by creating this enduring tale about the power of friendship.
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elentari3018
Rohan
Nov 17, 1:12pm
Post #13 of 34
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Contextulaizing Merry in terms of relationships
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Merry was born in T.A. 2982, about 14 years after Frodo, two years after Sam, and eight years before Pippin. He's the scion of the Brandybucks, and has a Tookish bloodline through his mother. Merry is both cousins to Frodo and Pippin and part of the Brandybuck clan that made him an heir to being the leader of Brandy Hall. PIppin and Merry are first cousins and Merry and Frodo are second cousins.
THe movie does not emphasize these relations but for the context of knowing how important or close Merry is to both hobbits, i wanted to mention. I do not think it was coincidental that Pippin and Merry went on the journey, to be changed and also eventually also lead their respective families.
I find it interesting that Frodo, Merry and Pippin are the only sons in their family therefore they get full inheritance of titles. I do wonder if the younger hobbits told their families that they were going on an adventure or they let their families worry ?
"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
"He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK
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elentari3018
Rohan
Nov 17, 1:16pm
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Merry readily admitted to being afraid, but the story repeatedly points out how he's cheerful and unperturbed. Does he find strength and confidence by taking care of Frodo and the other hobbits? That is why when he was left behind in Rohan separated from Pippin i felt that he was most desperate and at the lowest point in the Quest. He is used to being there for someone and separated from Pippin and the others made him feel like he was left behind and held on like some luggage by the ROhirrim .
Merry is a very practical hobbit and likes to keep him busy with plans and care for his fellow kin. I like that characteristic of Merry.
"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
"He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK
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oliphaunt
Lorien
Nov 17, 4:54pm
Post #15 of 34
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I like Merry's care and concern for others as well. As heir to the Brandybucks, he doesn't need for money, but he consistently chooses the path of service to others.
I find it interesting that Frodo, Merry and Pippin are the only sons in their family therefore they get full inheritance of titles. I do wonder if the younger hobbits told their families that they were going on an adventure or they let their families worry ?
We can only speculate about what happened outside of the story. I'm willing to assume that Merry's family were well aware that he was helping Frodo manage affairs at Bag End and then Crickhollow. And it's not a stretch to assume they were aware that he'd assembled a troop of ponies and supplies, since that would be a hard thing to hide from gossipy hobbits. Nor a stretch to assume Pippin's family knew he was in Merry's company. When the hobbits are approaching Bree, Merry said "My people ride out there now and again.", so it was not unknown for Brandybucks to travel by pony outside of the Shire. And that may well have been enough cover story, without having to disclose that Merry and Pippin were accompanying Frodo on a quest to dispose of the One RIng.
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oliphaunt
Lorien
Nov 17, 5:00pm
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I think we'll find out over the coming weeks if Merry withdrew from leadership permanently, or if he stepped back when he realized he wasn't doing the best job possible. Does Merry learn a lesson about over-confidence?
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oliphaunt
Lorien
Nov 17, 5:19pm
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Could the Ring have contributed to Merry's desire to start the conspiracy and to go with Frodo? After all, Merry did admit that he'd seen Bilbo use the ring and had spied on him and Frodo since. Did the Ring capture Merry's attention and, though it couldn't corrupt the good-hearted hobbit, serve to encourage his long fascination with Bilbo and Frodo?
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oliphaunt
Lorien
Nov 17, 6:18pm
Post #18 of 34
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An oversight, and a lesson learned?
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It took Tom Bombadil to point out a oversight in provisioning the hobbits. 'Old knives are long enough as swords for hobbit-people,' he said, 'Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, or far away into dark and danger.' -- Fog on the Barrow Downs
Fighting had not before occurred to any of them as one of the adventures in which their flight would land them.
Merry didn't think about bringing any weapons. Hobbits had not been in any battles for a long time, though surely Merry knew the older history and Bilbo's participation in battle with the dwarves, elves and men.
What do you think about Tom's prophecy? That all four of the hobbits will need swords, and that they will be walking south as well as east.
1. They will be in war or at least need to defend themselves.
2. They are going to be walking, not riding Merry's ponies
3. They will all be heading south, not just east towards Rivendell
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noWizardme
Half-elven
Nov 17, 6:48pm
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It seems reasonable to suppose that when Tolkien was imagining the hobbits' friendship group he drew on how these things were in his own experience.
I don't (of course) mean that the four hobbits that set out from Crickhollow are portraits of the four TCBS members, or some of the Inklings, or anything so easy to unpick.
But I suspect that a lot of the unspoken rules, understandings, in-jokes and codes of behaviour that Tolkien was familiar with might have been used or adapted to write the hobbit relationships.
That in turn means that a contemporary of Tolkien from a similar background might see all kinds of nuances and make some inferences that we will all miss. Though possibly each friendship group - if tight enough - invents its own unique traditions and behaviours. And the point of these bahaviours is that they are incomprehensible or unknown or seem silly to anyone outside the clique.
But then again - how much do readers need to understand, really? Tolkien needs to make us feel it's believable that Frodo's friends will drop everything to go off adventuring with Frodo - primarily because of friendship. I think we do get that clearly.
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"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
Nov 18, 1:39am
Post #20 of 34
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by Treebeard's commen, as well as the Dwarves tradition. It reminded me of traditions I've heard about where a child received a new name at a certain definite age, having been referred to before that by some sort of nickname or other temporary appellation; and I have the impression I read somewhere that sometimes those names are not to be uttered carelessly. Although I also wondered if he simply meant they should be cautious about identifying themselves in dangerous circumstances and foreign lands.
And yes, we should keep track of Merry vs Meriadoc. I think I've noticed something of that in passing, but without thinking of what significance it might have held to call him one instead of the other.
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
Nov 18, 1:41am
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far more specific than I had ever noticed before! Well, of course he knew where the danger lay, and where the evil was concentrated. But I wonder why he had some idea that they'd be heading in that direction? Simply his association with Gandalf, or some specific knowledge he had himself, or just an educated guess? Possibly a combination . . .
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
Nov 18, 1:45am
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Well, I'll have to read more fully with that in mind, but I wonder if that's what came home to him after the Black Rider incident, and partly why we see him in less than a leadership role for quite a while.
But encountering Aragorn and then traveling with him would certainly be a situation where most people would naturally hand over leadership to someone like that, especially in the situation the Hobbits found themselves in at the time.
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noWizardme
Half-elven
Nov 18, 2:52pm
Post #23 of 34
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I was arguing that there could be lots of nuances about these hobbit friendships that could be hard to understand nowadays. And that a contemporary of Tolkien might get things we miss - someone whose life spent in England meant he also went to boys-only boarding school, British Army and then (much more male at that time than now) academia.
I wish I'd added that I didn't add my own interpretations of how those froendships work, because what folks have already said sounds right to me. If we're missing subculture-specific nuances, there's not much we can do about that. I can't fill in any gaps. English Male Friendship Groups of the Early Twentieth Century and Their Influence on Tolkien sounds liek a plausible acaemic study someone could do (maybe some Tolkien scholars have?) But it sounds like a substantial piece of work!
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"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
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oliphaunt
Lorien
Nov 18, 7:47pm
Post #24 of 34
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I find the Merry/Frodo teasing familiar in more than one sense, since it's something I'd expect from my own friends as well as my family. Affectionate teasing might appear hostile to an outsider, but it can be a sign of close relationships and a way to let off steam in an easy way. To me, it's a signal of their friendship. Add on Merry's cheerful willingness to help Frodo with his household affairs, and I'm sure Merry is a close friend. Accompanying Frodo on his quest and not turning tail as soon as Tom Bombadil let them back to The Road, is friendship of an even higher order.
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oliphaunt
Lorien
Nov 18, 8:35pm
Post #25 of 34
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Tom Bombadil is quite, quite old. He may know things, or know beings who know things. Galadriel has her mirror, Tom also has some kind of inside line.
The walking east and south prophecy is not the only one that occurs in the Old Forest.. Frodo's dream at Tom's house is prophetic, Merry's maybe not - unless it has something to do with the flooding at Moria gate or Orthanc. Then, when Tom rescues the hobbits from the barrow he prophesies Aragorn's involvement:
'Few now remember them,' Tom murmured, 'yet still some go wandering, sonds of forgotten kings walking in lonliness, guarding from evit things fold that are heedless.' The hobbits did not understand his words, but as he spoke they had a vision as it were of a great expanse of years behind them, like a vast shadowy plain over which there strode shapes of Men, tall and grim with bright swords, and last came one with a star on his brow.-- Fog on the Barrow Downs
None of the hobbits understood, but they all shared a vision. Merry might have been a bit more sensitive than the others - when he awoke from the barrow he was half in a dream/vision: ' Of course, I remember! he said. 'The men of Carn Dum came on us at night, and we were worsted. Ah! the spear in my heart!'
Carn Dum was under control of the Witch King of Angmar. Presumably Merry was sharing in the memory of the wight who had been killed before Angmar was defeated by the Dúnedain, Aragorn's ancestors.
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