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Did J.K. Rowling take "Dumbeldore" from Tolkien? Or, is it a well known archaic name?

Eruonen
Half-elven


Oct 17, 1:55am

Post #1 of 18 (1684 views)
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Did J.K. Rowling take "Dumbeldore" from Tolkien? Or, is it a well known archaic name? Can't Post

https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dumbledors

Dumbledors were a legendary "ferocious race of winged insects",[1] mentioned only in Hobbit verse. The dumbledors were said to have battled a knight on a quest.[2]

Dumbledor or dumbledore is an obsolete English word for bumblebee.

"The name "Dumbledore" is an 18th-century word for "bumblebee".[15] Rowling chose the name because Dumbledore loves music, and she imagined him walking around and humming to himself frequently.[16]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albus_Dumbledore


Eldy
Tol Eressea


Oct 23, 1:36am

Post #2 of 18 (1561 views)
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Possibly, but I wouldn't put money on it [In reply to] Can't Post

"Errantry" is hardly one of Tolkien's more popular works, nor is it widely discussed even in Tolkien fandom, much less the wider world. Unless Rowling has read The Adventures of Tom Bombadil or (listened to) The Road Goes Ever On I wouldn't expect her to have even heard of Tolkien's "Dumbledors [and] Hummerhorns, and Honeybees" (RGEO, p. 47). Rowling stated in a 2000 interview with Newsweek that she read LOTR when she was "about 14" and The Hobbit in her 20s, after she'd begun working on HP. I don't think she's ever described reading past that, and even if she did, I'd be surprised if she went for Tolkien's poetry collections. Few people do.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 23, 2:01am

Post #3 of 18 (1554 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

The chances are someplace between zero and none.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


noWizardme
Half-elven


Oct 24, 11:39am

Post #4 of 18 (1467 views)
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It's an English dialect word meaning 'bumblebee' .... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's a dialect word meaning 'bumblebee' (or sometimes another large insect)

So there would have been many places Rowling could have come across it independently of Tolkien.

~~~~~~
"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.


Ethel Duath
Half-elven


Oct 24, 7:06pm

Post #5 of 18 (1416 views)
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I do like [In reply to] Can't Post

humblebee (Methinks I have heard that heretofore).



noWizardme
Half-elven


Oct 25, 4:02pm

Post #6 of 18 (1360 views)
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Bombus humilis [In reply to] Can't Post

Bombus humilis is the brown-banded carder bee. I think they missed a trick not calling it the Humble bumble.

~~~~~~
"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.


Na Vedui
Rohan


Oct 25, 8:06pm

Post #7 of 18 (1354 views)
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Dumbledore - and Hagrid [In reply to] Can't Post

On a hunch, I Googled "Dumbledore Thomas Hardy" and it brought up some references, including one to a passage in "The Mayor of Casterbridge" that mentions "dumbledore" and "hagrid" in the same paragraph! They are mentioned as examples of old-fashioned countrified words that one of the characters now avoids using. So that's another possible source. There are probably other mentions in Victorian novels etc. though.


Ethel Duath
Half-elven


Oct 25, 10:36pm

Post #8 of 18 (1353 views)
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Ho! Tom Bombusbee, Tom Bombusillo! [In reply to] Can't Post

Bright orange his jacket is, though other bees have yellow.
None have ever squashed him yet, for Tom avoids disaster.
His stings are stronger stings, and his wings are faster.



(This post was edited by dernwyn on Nov 5, 1:49am)


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Oct 30, 3:35pm

Post #9 of 18 (1169 views)
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*mods up* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


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"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


Ethel Duath
Half-elven


Oct 30, 9:12pm

Post #10 of 18 (1151 views)
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Why, thank you! :) [In reply to] Can't Post

I just now noticed that Firefox or whatever messed with my carefully constructed stanzas, though, and turned it into a ridiculously run-on paragraph with no space between sentences! Mad Evil



dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 5, 1:50am

Post #11 of 18 (1039 views)
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Oh? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why, it looks just fine to me! Angelic


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


Ethel Duath
Half-elven


Nov 5, 2:21am

Post #12 of 18 (1039 views)
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The shoemakers elves have nothing on you. :D [In reply to] Can't Post

Thankee kindly!



dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 5, 2:40pm

Post #13 of 18 (1008 views)
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'Twas but a trifle! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

And now I'm trying to wrap my mind around "myxolydian", I don't recall ever having heard that term in all my long-ago music lessons...Shocked


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"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


Ethel Duath
Half-elven


Nov 5, 4:12pm

Post #14 of 18 (996 views)
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Trifles are yummy! :D Oh, and your music teacher likely [In reply to] Can't Post

would not have brought it up, because it's one of what they call the "modes" which have been largely superseded by our current standard major and minor types of keys.

I love the modes because some of them are a bit weird and therefore fun. Smile

Two of them actually are what became known as major and one of the minors (3 common types of that), Ionian and Aeolian. All very Greek, as to the terms, it appears.

Here's a nice website where you can hear them. My favorite bizarre one is the Locrian, because to our modern ears, it feels like it needs to go one half-step higher than the last official Locrian note to sound like it's actually finished up. https://mymusictheory.com/...s/the-musical-modes/



(This post was edited by Ethel Duath on Nov 5, 4:13pm)


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 5, 8:10pm

Post #15 of 18 (978 views)
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Music for whatever mode you're in! [In reply to] Can't Post

Fascinating, thank you! But I'll always think of them as majors and minors - much easier to remember than those names! Laugh


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


Ethel Duath
Half-elven


Nov 5, 8:35pm

Post #16 of 18 (976 views)
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Or! String 'em together, and you have: [In reply to] Can't Post

Dorwinion?
Ionosphere?
Phryg Door?



dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 6, 12:16am

Post #17 of 18 (949 views)
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Lobelian? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


Ethel Duath
Half-elven


Nov 6, 1:08am

Post #18 of 18 (950 views)
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Hahahahaha! [In reply to] Can't Post

Perfect.


 
 

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