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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jun 2, 3:00am
Post #26 of 46
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His exposure to these other languages, Welsh, Cornish, Finnish etc. really was the key
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to his names along with literary works like James Fennimore Coopers Longstocking Tales / Last of the Mohicans where you can see a lot of Hawkeye in Aragorn and also some of the other names he encountered.
"Hawkeye, the protagonist of the novel, goes by several names: Natty Bumppo, La Longue Carabine (The Long Rifle), the scout, and Hawkeye. Hawkeye stars in several of Cooper’s novels, which are known collectively as the Leatherstocking Tales. Hawkeye’s chief strength is adaptability. He adapts to the difficulties of the frontier and bridges the divide between white and Indian cultures. A hybrid, Hawkeye identifies himself by his white race and his Indian social world, in which his closest friends are the Mohicans Chingachgook and Uncas."
Aragorn and the Elves are in a similar position.....Elrond and Legolas instead of Chingachgook and Uncas.
https://www.sparknotes.com/...s/character/hawkeye/
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Jun 2, 3:05am)
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Narvi
Lorien
Jun 3, 3:37pm
Post #27 of 46
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Before Bombadil's casting was announced, I had thought this was the voice of Durin III. Now it seems much more likely to be Tom's.
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Noria
Gondor
Jun 3, 5:47pm
Post #28 of 46
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I'll be interested to see Tom in RoP.
Book Bombadil is great but I was very glad that he didn't make it into the movie trilogy because I wasn't sure they could make it work without him seeming completely ridiculous. Maybe I was traumatized by the Tom Bombadil who appeared in a Fellowship of the Ring video game that I used to play twenty or so years ago. 
I think that it's impossible to tell how a character will be played from a couple of still photos. Or maybe RoP Bombadil will have more gravitas than the original but even he could change over time.
On another topic, the authenticity, or lack thereof, of the accents used in RoP isn't an issue for me, though I understand and sympathize that people may not enjoy hearing their own accents reproduced badly.
For me, the use of accents in this context is merely a device to reinforce that this group of people, with this accent, are culturally and socially distinct from that group of people, who speak differently. The same goes for individuals like Tom Bombadil. Obviously, the Harfoots are not really supposed to be Irish, Bombadil is not actually Cornish. Is it practical to invent an entirely new way of speaking from scratch for a film or is using an existing accent just easier? Possibly there are associations we all make with existing accents that are useful to the story.
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Jun 5, 3:19am
Post #29 of 46
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Hello Noria,
I trust you are well. I think you make an important point. Tom for me has always belonged more in the frivolous atmosphere of The Hobbit than the LOTR.
The encounter with the Barrow wights had a good deal of atmosphere and was attached to the broader historical landscape but Tom and Goldberry are somewhat incongruous. He belongs to that notion of the story grew in the telling.
Imagine that conversation between Gandalf and Tom at the end of the LOTR and Gandalfs words to the Hobbits. That encounter would have to be altogether different in the way all three characters interacted given the high nature of the ending.
I am reminded of some of the Hobbit movie conversations about giving the episode at Beorn's House more gravitas and weight than the book.
Tom maybe rustic and part of the goodness of nature as opposed to the machines and devices of Sauron but his portrayal in ROP produces an interesting tonal challenge, which for all its faults the first season handled well.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Jun 5, 3:23am)
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TFP
Lorien
Jun 5, 1:00pm
Post #30 of 46
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I'm not sure what I think of a Cornish accent for TB.
I suppose it all turns on what TB's true origins are. I probably tend to see him as a or even the 'spirit of the earth', i.e. Middle Earth, by which I don't mean just Eriador, even though [by the time of LoTR] he'd become holed up in one very small corner of it.
In Tolkien's mythology Welsh and by extension Cornish/South Welsh are to me the languages [and I suppose therefore the accents] of 'the West', which I probably don't tend to associate with TB.
Anyway...
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TFP
Lorien
Jun 5, 2:28pm
Post #31 of 46
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I suppose by the time of LoTR he has "withdrawn" into a small patch of, more or less, England's Midlands..., suggesting he might have an accent along the those lines. But he's described by Elrond as having historically been a wanderer.
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Noria
Gondor
Jun 7, 5:30pm
Post #32 of 46
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Hi Michelle. Hope you're well too.
I pretty much agree with your take on Bombadil, in both your posts
For me he works in the book in part because his appearance is short and comes when the story is just coming into its own as more than a sequel to The Hobbit, and is finding its own tone. His (delightful) more fey qualities are not quite incongruous, yet.
Bombadil has seen a lot, more than any other being in Middle-earth. He hasn't forgotten. I always got a sense of underlying gravitas and power from him, as well as age. Maybe that's what we'll see in RoP.
I liked much more about RoP than I didn't and look forward to its return. I'm hoping that its creators will have found their feet in the second season and do better.
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
Jun 7, 5:35pm
Post #33 of 46
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I'm hoping that its creators will have found their feet in the second season and do better.
Remember that Season 2 was locked before there was much time to learn and adjust. So don't count on it until Season 3. But when a five season show takes ten years to air and the subsequent effects of that kind of time? I have better choices.
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Junesong
Rohan
Jun 7, 5:44pm
Post #34 of 46
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I don't think "find their feet" necessarily has to mean course correcting based on fan reactions. Even in the case of a total train wreck - I wouldn't want showrunners to listen to the internet for advice on course correction.
I've always thought that most shows "find their stride" after a while as the characters develop and the plot really kicks off. There was a lot of world building in season one and a lot of characters - some that hit or missed more than others. I'm guessing that the writers are finding their way more and more as the story engine revs up a bit more. Writers develop a short-hand and comfort level with writing their characters and the action starts to build. We also have the benefit of knowing the characters from season one and which makes things more emotional and raises the stakes of the plot.
A lot of the showrunners comments before the debut of season one hinted at this too. The way they talked about season one implied that it was pretty heavy on world building and a little slower. There were more than a few euphemisms about how they hoped the fans would "stick with it" because of how things will come together as it goes.
Lots of conjecture on my part. But I think it's very ordinary in the tv business for shows to find their own rhythm as they go - regardless of fan criticism or praise.
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
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Noria
Gondor
Jun 7, 7:16pm
Post #35 of 46
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The RoP creative team shouldn’t pay more attention to what the various factions of the fan community want than Amazon makes them. Fans don’t own a property and we are free to watch or not watch.
No, the writers should stay true to their vision, whatever that is. By finding their feet, I mean that they should also look at what worked on the screen and what didn’t in terms of the requirements of the story they are telling and adjust accordingly.
I loved the world building, most of the characters and acting, and IMO the diversity in the casting worked really well. Arondir, anyone? The pacing didn’t bother me in the least. RoP was interesting and beautiful to look at and the music was great. As in Jackson’s Hobbit trilogy, I enjoyed seeing characters that were just names on a page fleshed out on the screen (sorry, not sorry).
It’s been a while since I rewatched RoP and some of it’s getting a bit hazy in my mind. But I do remember a couple of the story points that didn’t work for me: Galadriel jumping off the ship and the whole Tree of Life mithril thing. 
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Jun 8, 6:56am
Post #36 of 46
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I liked much more about RoP than I didn't and look forward to its return.
You have a real skill at getting to the nub of things and it's always wrapped up in a good sense of something that is often lost, common sense.
Like you I like much more than I did not like and yet in may well be different things. That does not matter one iota.
The first season asked lots and lots of questions and but for knowing who Sauron is, most of them were left unanswered. I am good with that but certain sections of the modern audience want specific answers to everything yesterday.
We have a false floor above the Tolkien history but much of it remains unexplained. Sam Hazeldine has already indicated some of it will begin to be explained.
I loved the Dweller and her compatriots but I am intrigued to know where the Star Map went.
Without burdening my post with what i did not like , I am sure, all of them can be rectified though learning through experience.
Probably the one that will not is the everyday nature of the Numenorian's though Elendil and Miriel nailed it and Ar Pharozon is coming along.
One element where I think this shows excels over other portrayals is the Dwarves. I really am taken with them and the way their surroundings have been envisioned.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Jun 8, 6:58am)
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AshNazg
Grey Havens
Jun 8, 3:06pm
Post #37 of 46
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Tom's feather should not be blue...
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Just reading The Adventures of Tom Bombadil and, up until the Third Age, Tom wore a swan wing feather in his hat. (The Rings of Power looks like it could be a black swan feather, so maybe they've got this right!)
In the second poem Tom makes references to Hobbits living at Hays- end before meeting a kingfisher. He discards his swan feather and replaces it with the kingfisher's blue one!
Hobbits weren't around until the Third Age, so this makes me wonder if we could see these adventures play out in The Rings of Power! We could see him meet the River-woman, meeting the Badger folk, Old Man Willow and talking to birds.
I'd actually like to see him have his own arc - He could be like Middle-earth's caretaker - wandering around, trying to help and look after the world, before becoming disillusioned with the darkness creeping in, and eventually settling down with Goldberry, becoming a hermit, and handing over his responsibilities to the wizards.
It would explain why Gandalf wants to talk to Tom at the end of Return of the King. Perhaps he was visiting to inform Tom that the task is done, and Men are now responsible for the world.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Jun 8, 3:12pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 8, 7:40pm
Post #38 of 46
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Just reading The Adventures of Tom Bombadil and, up until the Third Age, Tom wore a swan wing feather in his hat. (The Rings of Power looks like it could be a black swan feather, so maybe they've got this right!)
In the second poem Tom makes references to Hobbits living at Hays- end before meeting a kingfisher. He discards his swan feather and replaces it with the kingfisher's blue one!
Hobbits weren't around until the Third Age, so this makes me wonder if we could see these adventures play out in The Rings of Power! We could see him meet the River-woman, meeting the Badger folk, Old Man Willow and talking to birds.
I'd actually like to see him have his own arc - He could be like Middle-earth's caretaker - wandering around, trying to help and look after the world, before becoming disillusioned with the darkness creeping in, and eventually settling down with Goldberry, becoming a hermit, and handing over his responsibilities to the wizards.
It would explain why Gandalf wants to talk to Tom at the end of Return of the King. Perhaps he was visiting to inform Tom that the task is done, and Men are now responsible for the world.
Hobbits did not enter the historical records of Middle-earth until the Third Age. That does not mean that they weren't around. If Halflings had not yet settled into the vales between the Greenwood and the Misty Mountains then they probably lived somewhere further east. I would guess that they fled the East to escape the spreading influence of Sauron and his servants (who were themselves unaware of the Little Folk).
“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella
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AshNazg
Grey Havens
Jun 11, 4:52pm
Post #39 of 46
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I have no problem with the harfoots (harfeet?) existing in Rings of Power at all, and I agree they must have existed in some form before the Third Age, they just kept out of everyone's way.
Tom's feather being swapped for a blue one happens shortly before a meeting with Farmer Maggot though, so wouldn't have happened more than a couple of decades before Fellowship of the Ring.
We don't know how many feathers he had for the thousands of years before that though, so it's far from a lore-breaking detail, I just found it interesting. Makes me wonder just how long Tom and Goldberry were together for (did they only meet late into the Third Age?) and what Tom was up to for those millennia spent alone.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Jun 11, 4:55pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 12, 3:51am
Post #40 of 46
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Who says that Tom Bombadil first met Goldberry late in the Third Age? It could have been early Third Age or even sometime before that. I'm guessing that Tom might not have yet encountered his lady at the time when the Stranger began his wanderings though. It's probably sometime after he settles permanently in the Old Forest.
“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella
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AshNazg
Grey Havens
Jun 14, 8:26pm
Post #41 of 46
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Of course we don't have clue when Tom met Goldberry, but if The Adventures of Tom Bombadil takes place within Farmer Maggot's lifetime then it makes me wonder if it hasn't been that long at all.
I like the idea that they meet day 1 of the Third Age - as the world enters its third age, Tom enters a third stage in his life, as a married man. It could imply that at the start of the Fourth Age is when they have their first child (There are many myths of a water spirit whose first child signifies the begining of time, so I find that fitting).
We also don't know how long Farmer Maggot has been alive - Tolkien's notes seem to suggest he could also be immortal, or some kind of spirit. Perhaps The Stranger is Farmer Maggot? 
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Jun 14, 8:28pm)
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
Jun 14, 8:46pm
Post #42 of 46
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Of course we don't have clue when Tom met Goldberry, but if The Adventures of Tom Bombadil takes place within Farmer Maggot's lifetime then it makes me wonder if it hasn't been that long at all.
Maybe Farmer Maggot had a daughter and it was more than Hobbits taking liberties with his fruits and vegetables that he was worried about.
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Jun 14, 8:46pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 14, 8:57pm
Post #43 of 46
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Of course we don't have clue when Tom met Goldberry, but if The Adventures of Tom Bombadil takes place within Farmer Maggot's lifetime then it makes me wonder if it hasn't been that long at all. I like the idea that they meet day 1 of the Third Age - as the world enters its third age, Tom enters a third stage in his life, as a married man. It could imply that at the start of the Fourth Age is when they have their first child (There are many myths of a water spirit whose first child signifies the begining of time, so I find that fitting). We also don't know how long Farmer Maggot has been alive - Tolkien's notes seem to suggest he could also be immortal, or some kind of spirit. Perhaps The Stranger is Farmer Maggot?
I keep thinking that some of the legends of Tom Bombadil might be of relatively recent origin (in terms of when they were recorded) while some might date back to even before the hobbits settled in the Shire.
“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella
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Glaurung63
Lorien
Jul 1, 11:46pm
Post #44 of 46
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Hmmm will it just be him? Interesting!
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sharku
Lorien
Jul 18, 12:06pm
Post #45 of 46
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I understand and sympathize that people may not enjoy hearing their own accents reproduced badly.
As a kiwi, it's really interesting hearing people try to do our accents on film. The film "Everest" is a good example of some good attempts - not surprising from the Aussie lead Jason Clark and of course a few Kiwi actors like Martin Henderson...but a number of the actors were pretty amusing in their attempts, especially Keira Knightly, Emily Watson (Brits) and Elizabeth Debicki (Aussie). And I'm sure Texans would have thought Robin Wright's accent was off (even though she was born in Texas, she grew up in California).
OT - looking forward to seeing Tom in season 2, hopefully he sounds the part, looks the part - but most importantly is written as a good part.
(This post was edited by sharku on Jul 18, 12:08pm)
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
Jul 18, 5:07pm
Post #46 of 46
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I think anyone can get close by just pronouncing all 'E's as long 'E's. There seems to be no such think as a short 'E' vowel sound there.
E.g., Eeeveeereeest.
I love hearing Bobble (Frankie Adams) pronounce Weeepon on The Expanse.
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