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DeadRabbits
Rohan
Jun 6 2023, 10:35am
Post #1 of 23
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HUGE Sauron leaks, courtesy of Fellowship of Fans **season 2 spoilers**
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Two days ago, Fellowship of Fans posted their perhaps biggest season 2 scoop yet, leaking three very interesting piece of news related to the main big baddie of the series – Sauron.
Apparently, another actor than Charlie Vickers will portray "original form" Sauron in the later episodes of season 2. This shape is described as "angelic" and beautiful, clad in black and gold, with long, black hair.
Meanwhile, Charlie Vickers has spent the most of his time on the Mordor set. This time around, he is clean shaven, and his character design has a "fiery" and "ashy" look.
Whether this “angelic form” of Sauron corresponds to Annatar or is something else altogether (Mairon?) remains to be seen. The angelic form’s late appearance in the season would point towards that he shows up during the Battle of Eregion (which we know has been filmed, and presumably covers episode 7 to 8 – the “two-episode battle”, referred to in interviews by the showrunners).
Also remember that Adar didn’t recognize Adar as the Dark Lord in season 1, meaning that Sauron was using some other guise during their time together in Forodwaith. This could implicate that we will see a third Sauron form in a flashback, or that the angelic/Mairon/Annatar form will be his alternate shape used throughout the season.
So, who could play this angelic form of Sauron then? Well, based on age and appearance, there are, IMO, three viable options among the season 2 cast:
Gabriel Akuwudike
Calam Lynch (heavily rumored to play Celeborn)
Gavi Singh Chera
FoF held an AMA at their Discord channel shortly after the leaks were revealed, and these were the main takeaways:
- The original form of Sauron could potentially be portrayed by a POC actor and resemble an Elf (kind of a vague statement, I guess that they have received hints in that direction, but failed to get them confirmed)
- Adar and Sauron will have an "interesting relationship" during season 2
- There is a bigger reveal than the "Halbrand is Sauron" reveal in store for season 2
- The Stranger/Rhûn storyline will be very “lore heavy”
Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
Jun 6 2023, 6:45pm
Post #2 of 23
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Already covered in thread:
S***** in Season 2 (POTENTIAL SPOILER)?
Though this post is more attractively formatted and written,
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Jun 6 2023, 7:17pm
Post #3 of 23
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I'm glad that Charlie Vickers is still involved. His character as Halbrand/Sauron was amazing and was so rooting for him not be to Sauron because I wanted him to be one of the 'good guys' but I still love him as Sauron either way. But I'm excited he is still involved. But I am also happy that they are casting another actor for Sauron's many forms. I always remember him being a shapeshifter, especially after reading the Silmarillion, so getting several actors to portray Sauron is a great idea!
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
Jun 6 2023, 8:55pm
Post #4 of 23
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When Even The White Rabbit Knows Your Name
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His character as Halbrand/Sauron was amazing and was so rooting for him not be to Sauron... I guess you are one of the lucky ones who didn't immediately see through the writers' cliched intent. I often figured it was closer to viewers' cognitive dissonance, but I suppose some could just go for the ride.
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Jun 6 2023, 8:55pm)
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Junesong
Rohan
Jun 8 2023, 12:01pm
Post #5 of 23
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I figured that Halbrand was likely Sauron by the end of the third episode based on my knowledge of Tolkien and the heavy handed writer's hints. But the way in which the finale reveal was done and the way in which Vicker's played the two characters was very effective. I thought it was really well done.
The inconsistent writing of season one (most notably the Numenor scenes) seems to confirm some of the writing team are really great at their jobs and others not so much. Here's hoping for a more cohesive team on Season 2. Maybe this is the fault of the leadership? Or the make a show by committee approach? Or the we're really just a corporation trying to sell you a show?
If I was in charge I would very quickly ask who wrote certain parts and who wrote others and then I would promote and fire accordingly.
(All that to say, there was a lot of nuance in the writing of Halbrand's journey into the reveal of Sauron that went far and above the "Is he or isn't he" question. Much of that nuance and joy in the performance and the lore would be lost on you if you've only cobbled together bits and bobs about the season from blogs and vlogs and hateposts. Much of it would be personal. Maybe eventually you'll find yourself in a position where you can watch the season without enriching Amazon at all and then we can talk more about it.)
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
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TFP
Lorien
Jun 9 2023, 9:14am
Post #6 of 23
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Any 'angelic' form of Sauron should IMO be really visually striking... their age, ethnicity, even maybe sex all unimportant - but they should look otherworldly.. and be relatively unknown to audiences...
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 9 2023, 2:00pm
Post #7 of 23
(3154 views)
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Already covered in thread:
S***** in Season 2 (POTENTIAL SPOILER)?
Though this post is more attractively formatted and written,
This is getting far more attention as a separate thread anyway!
“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
Jun 9 2023, 8:54pm
Post #8 of 23
(3132 views)
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Any 'angelic' form of Sauron should IMO be really visually striking... their age, ethnicity, even maybe sex all unimportant - but they should look otherworldly.. and be relatively unknown to audiences... They should get Cate Blanchett to play the role. Wouldn't that be fun?
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Jun 12 2023, 6:36pm
Post #9 of 23
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I think Vickers was one of the best actors cast on the show.
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I wondered who he was pretty much throughout the entire show, but I haven't read the books in a few years so I needed to brush up on my lore again and do a 3rd reread of the Silmarillion or 2nd read of Unfinished Tales. I thought Halbrand was going to end up being the King of Dunharrow and the only reason I thought that was because the persona of Halbrand was a man who was fleeing. And the King of the Dead and his army were cursed for abandoning their call.
What I would like to see in season two, or perhaps another season, is Sauron playing a role with the death of Galadriel's brother with Beren and Luthien. I know that Amazon has rights to only some of the books like the Lord of the Rings, but the story of Beren and Luthien was relayed in the Lord of the Rings books. That way we can see another form of Sauron, and one we haven't seen before so far that the media has portrayed.
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
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Junesong
Rohan
Jun 12 2023, 7:18pm
Post #10 of 23
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I do think there's more story to tell there. It seems like the show is playing some tricks with us there. Galadriel doesn't seem to have her facts straight - her story about Finrod doesn't line up with the books (I've heard some speculate that this is a rights issue and I bought that explanation at first too) BUT once Galadriel has that scene where she says that her husband Celeborn is dead it made me think that maybe this Galadriel has been deceived in more ways than one.
I'm hoping that even if we don't get much Beren and Luthien canon (and we probably won't due to rights) I do think we'll get a corrected, canonical Finrod death at some point in the five seasons. Here's hoping anyway.
This makes me think of something from the finale though...
Was Sauron pretending to Finrod even in that first episode with young Galadriel? His advice about touching the darkness really seems to be Sauron-ish.
To be honest - that whole callback in the finale really confused me. What did you guys make of it?
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
Jun 12 2023, 8:04pm
Post #11 of 23
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The books don't matter much, so I wouldn't pin your hopes on that. As Junesong mentions, they have a whole lot of space to fill out with their own inventions because of limited rights.
We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit. And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-Earth, or any of those other books…
I saw through the writing from the get-go from the officially released and fan clips alone. It seemed ridiculously obvious, especially when one is aware of the well-known "literary" device (or trope) of introducing the villain early on in the story, who is there all along, and who only near the end of the story becomes the evil twist. The writers here were not talented enough to pull that off, or they simply made some bad story decisions. Such as dumping Galadriel off a boat for a thousand mile swim, only to run into Sauron in the middle of an ocean perhaps larger than our Pacific. What are the odds? And they did not seem to weight the odds in the story with some designed intent revealed later. During all the discussion back then, I felt it was just wishful thinking that adherence to canon and the quality of the writing might bring a surprise. But some were able to just enjoy the ride I suppose.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jun 12 2023, 9:43pm
Post #12 of 23
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That made me laugh out loud.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jun 13 2023, 9:56pm
Post #13 of 23
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Yep, season 1 was a disaster concerning plot and plot devices
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I have very little confidence of a course correction.
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
Jun 13 2023, 10:18pm
Post #14 of 23
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As I believe Season 2 was largely planned out, if not significantly written, prior to the airing of Season 1, any real feedback/criticism, if not dismissed and ignored, would not affect Season 2. Look to Season 3 before any pleasing course correction could be largely implemented. Personally, I'll be watching for how the production treats the fans who criticize it, which could be vastly improved for Season 2 if they have learned anything.
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Jun 13 2023, 10:20pm)
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jun 13 2023, 10:28pm
Post #15 of 23
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It will be too late if season 2 continues down the same road
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Sure, they may continue to make seasons 3-5 but if season 2 does not improve with the audience viewership I wonder if Bezos will continue along as is or if drastic moves will be made..i.e. firing the show runners etc. It may lead to a couple of years delay in any ongoing season or he may pull the plug. I doubt his ego will let him admit defeat.
The same situation for the Wheel of Time too.,
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Jun 13 2023, 10:29pm)
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
Jun 13 2023, 10:37pm
Post #16 of 23
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The scuttlebutt was already that J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay would be fired, then that was downgraded to "sidelined." Others would assume their responsibilities without making it public to save face. I figure the writers' strike would be a godsend for plausible deniability on all of that since they no longer can be on set for writing duties. How convenient.
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Junesong
Rohan
Jun 14 2023, 11:56am
Post #17 of 23
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Although I know the two of you don't agree with me - and I'm not here to change your mind - I really don't think season 1 was the train-wreck that your rhetoric is suggesting. They don't need radical course correction either in the cast, the story, or in the writer's room - they just need to find their feet. Season one was a lot of set up and world building - that's hard to do elegantly in the best of times. There were wrinkles and cringey moments here and there but heck - what show doesn't have those things? I think a few tweaks here and there and ROP could be a truly great show.
I hope (and very much want) season 2 follows the same story they started in season 1. I'm on board with the story they're telling, and with the characters they've given us, with the cast and with the creatives. I'm on board.
Lots of us liked it. Lots of us have re-watched it multiple times. (I've seen season one three times and I'll definitely watch it at least once more in the intervening years.)
I hope they keep doing what they're doing but find their feet a bit more as they go. There's lots of potential in what they're doing.
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jun 14 2023, 2:35pm
Post #18 of 23
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You are awarded the Blue Ribbon for ROP Superfan!
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I will continue watching but my expectations are low.
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Jun 14 2023, 2:46pm
Post #19 of 23
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I was skeptical at first but was sold by episode three and episode four held some of my favorite moments in Middle-earth on screen history.(The orcs not going into the sun while pursuing Arondir, Bronwyn and Theo and how it lead to Disa's 'Plea to the Rocks'--absolutely chilling) and I realized how much I enjoyed it because when my sisters were watching it, we all talked about how much we loved it.
Was it perfect? No, but neither was the Hobbit trilogy and I love those very much. I have yet to do a rewatch, but I plan to when I do my huge Tolkien marathon soon. Plan to start with Rings of Power, go unto the Hobbit and then finish with the Lord of the Rings.
I think season two they will have more of their bearings. They put their foot in the door with season one and had really good connections to the Jackson films-(The Balrog's return was amazing and he looked the same as in the Fotr!) I think they just need a little more of a chance to prove themselves!
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
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Junesong
Rohan
Jun 14 2023, 3:59pm
Post #20 of 23
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I don't know about superfan - but certainly nothing about it any worse than the other Tolkien adaptations in my lifetime. Tolkien is a special guy and his works really only exist in his words, the way he did it. All adaptations will only fall short.
But ROP rises to some glorious Tolkien heights. It's certainly on par with the vast majority of Tolkien adaptations. The only one that's far and above it is Jackson's Fellowship movie. That one was pretty close to a 10/10 - whether you're scoring as a movie, or as a Tolkien adaptation.
(I also agree with the last commenters opinion on The Hobbit trilogy. In my opinion, those are unwatchable, boring travesties. AND they had a great source material. There's really no justification for the movies Jackson made. And we don't even have the culture war to blame for it.)
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
Jun 14 2023, 10:22pm
Post #21 of 23
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There's really no justification for the movies Jackson made. And we don't even have the culture war to blame for it.)
:)
Might you go for something analogous to Dragon (Gold) Sickness in Peter Jackson progressively succumbing to CGI Sickness?
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Jun 14 2023, 10:23pm)
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Junesong
Rohan
Jun 15 2023, 11:51am
Post #22 of 23
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For sure!
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
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fantasywind
Rivendell
Jun 26 2023, 2:27pm
Post #23 of 23
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Hold your horses haha...I would rate this show even below the Hobbit films and goodness gracius I had been annoyed by them a LOT :) and I certainly don't see the show "rising to some glorious Tolkien heights" it's far from it. Hobbit films and this show have surprisingly lot in common both are bloating wiht fanfictiony elements, have poor creative choices and stupidities in the plot :).
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