Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
"Trivial" Character Details

Saruman
Bree


Feb 19 2023, 6:54pm

Post #1 of 17 (13301 views)
Shortcut
"Trivial" Character Details Can't Post

I for one love the LotR films and believe that they captured the "spirit" of Tolkien's book.

Still, there's plenty of minor details, trivial to some, but quite annoying to others. Are there any minor details you wished PJ & co. had presented differently in certain characters? I am speaking mostly of physical appearances, but also include some event-related criticisms.

This is a no judgement zone. :)

For me, it's...

1.) Boromir's hair is dark brown. I don't care that Aragorn also had dark hair, I just don't buy that lame excuse for giving Boromir (at best) light brown hair. Boromir's hair wasn't even somewhat blond. Tolkien goes into depth on Boromir's appearance during the Council of Elrond. On that note, Boromir's chainmail, if he wore it, was not outwardly seen in the book.

2.) King Théoden was older with white hair. This made his ultimate final ride to war all the more impressing and tragic; he reclaimed his honor after feeling guilty about being deceived for so long by Wormtongue & Saruman.

3.) Saruman's death. Give me a break with the falling onto a spike. Why didn't they just have Grima slit his throat, like in the book, and that's that. Saruman dies in the Shire, in front of a horrified Frodo. This would have been gold to see. The merciful Frodo at journey's end seeing his wish of mercy neglected by Grima, who he also took mercy upon. This relates to Grima's death sequence to, it takes the agency away from the hobbit archers who made the call on stopping him from leaving the Shire.

4.) Pippin's hair was described as almost golden by Tolkien in one of his letters (I apologize I don't have the page number or title to cite), yet they gave Merry almost golden hair while Pippin had lighter brown hair. Pippin's character also didn't come truly full circle like in the book, because PJ cut Pippin slaying a troll at the Battle of the Black Gate.

I could go on, but I'd love to hear the opinions of fellow nit-picky lovers of the films.

"I have seen it..."


Junesong
Rohan


Feb 20 2023, 9:49pm

Post #2 of 17 (13173 views)
Shortcut
Trivial to THEM [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm most frustrated by things Jackson and co seemed to think were trivial, like the much lamented lack of glow from Glamdring.

Also always bugged me a bit that they got Bilbo's outfit wrong in the ring finding prologue moment.

Balrog wings

Ok I'll stop

"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."


Tampa Phil
Rivendell


Mar 1 2023, 4:43am

Post #3 of 17 (12881 views)
Shortcut
I think for me, the biggest issue I had with the movies was [In reply to] Can't Post

the way the director toned down the crying. Sometimes you'd go 5 minutes or more without a shot of someone with tears streaming down their cheeks.

I was hoping they'd add in more crying scenes in the extended editions, but no, there was exactly the same amount of crying as in the theatrical versions.

TP


Owlyross
Rohan


Mar 1 2023, 4:21pm

Post #4 of 17 (12853 views)
Shortcut
Sam bursting into tears every ten minutes [In reply to] Can't Post

Would have made for one hell of a movie :)

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


Lissuin
Valinor


Mar 1 2023, 7:12pm

Post #5 of 17 (12850 views)
Shortcut
Yeah, yeah Phil, you ol' grump. Just be happy for small favours. [In reply to] Can't Post





Saruman
Bree


Mar 11 2023, 5:43am

Post #6 of 17 (12402 views)
Shortcut
Hm... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I did think I'd get some more nit-picky film lovers to chime in.

I'll continue, then:

- Frodo isn't the one who figures out the riddle at the entrance to the Mines of Moria.
- I wanted to see The Scouring of the Shire. I wanted to see the 4 hobbits come full circle and saving their turf. Depriving the main 4 of this dazzling display of leadership is understandable from a film standpoint, but for me it would have made a damn good sequence. And then, Saruman's death could have happened properly and not at Isengard. Grima would have died by hobbit arrows.

"I have seen it..."


Paulo Gabriel
Lorien

Mar 18 2023, 10:57am

Post #7 of 17 (12096 views)
Shortcut
Speaking of the "Scouring of the Shire"... [In reply to] Can't Post

Did you ever read this fellow fan's essay regarding excising this chapter from the Movie?

https://web.archive.org/web/20080828014734/http://oddlots.digitalspace.net/arthedain/scouring.html

Even if you don't agree with everything, I think it is still very well-written.

Detail: the above seems to have been written BEFORE RotK was even released. But the author actually went on to write a (very) lenghtly review of the final entry, after it finally came out; somewhat surprisingly, she didn't say much about the 'final result/product', so as to say; there's just this bit: "[..]the removal of the Scouring of the Shire has the "it was all a dream" effect of the ending of the 1939 film version of The Wizard of Oz".


(This post was edited by Paulo Gabriel on Mar 18 2023, 11:06am)


Paulo Gabriel
Lorien

Mar 18 2023, 11:23am

Post #8 of 17 (12072 views)
Shortcut
The third movie review [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, since I mentioned it, here is the link to the entire RotK review as well: https://web.archive.org/web/20080828014316/http://oddlots.digitalspace.net/arthedain/promises/promises_kept.html (which is titled "Promises Kept: ROTK-M At Last", and is (at least for me) just as interesting as the "Scouring" essay; obviously, it is quite polemic/controversial, but I can understand and even "empathize" when somebody here years ago (don't remember who it was) called it "a rant for the ages". Wink

(Sorry for the double post! I could have simply edited the first one, but unfortunately the time window expired...)


(This post was edited by Paulo Gabriel on Mar 18 2023, 11:35am)


squire
Half-elven


Mar 18 2023, 4:00pm

Post #9 of 17 (12071 views)
Shortcut
The Scouring does not exist in a narrative vacuum. [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember that review, and its argument, I think. Thanks for bringing it back.

The writer briefly mentions a point that he doesn't develop, that strongly affects the director's decision to omit the Scouring. That is the fact that in the book, the opening several chapters are devoted to depicting the Shire as a frame within which Frodo discovers the problem of the Ring. The relative innocence, and (to Frodo) boredom is portrayed with a loving sense of rural detail and hobbit-talk. All of this is a set-up for the Scouring - we can't be expected to appreciate the horror of Sharkey's assault, and the corruption of some of the hobbits, and the shock to the returnees of realizing the War isn't over yet, without a point of comparison at the opening of the book.

So for the Scouring to 'work' dramatically and morally in the way Tolkien intended, and as this reviewer wishes had been done, the first film should have spent about half an hour depicting the equivalent non-adventurous sequences that fill the first four chapters of Fellowship: the gossip at the pub, the build-up to the Party, the long slow days at Bag End, the move to Crickhollow, and the chatty interaction with Farmer Maggot.

I can imagine just as many complaints about a first movie that started out like that, with the 'action' only taking place in the last hour of the film as it does in the book, as have been made about the omission of the Scouring in the third movie. But the Scouring only exists in the story because Tolkien set it up at the beginning; as he says in his Second Foreword, the Scouring was not a parody of Labour Britain after WW 2 because he had written with the expectation that it would happen at the end when he started the book in the late 1930s. He had no thought at all that it would complicate the making of a trilogy of feature films that each need their own internal openings, climaxes, and closings.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Paulo Gabriel
Lorien

Apr 1 2023, 12:20am

Post #10 of 17 (11490 views)
Shortcut
No problem. [In reply to] Can't Post

I always enjoy bringing back this person's criticisms, since they deviate a bit from the usual "Jackson's trilogy is perfect" kind of rhetoric. Smile


squire
Half-elven


Apr 1 2023, 12:44am

Post #11 of 17 (11494 views)
Shortcut
Is "Jackson's trilogy is perfect" really the *usual* rhetoric on Tolkien fan sites? [In reply to] Can't Post

I know what you mean, of course, but I think there has always been a strong and vital critical counter-dialogue among fans about the flaws or failings of the New Line trilogy.

TORn, right here, has hosted numerous discussions where the problems with the Jackson/Boyens/Walsh productions have been thoroughly presented, chewed over, and likewise rebutted by our diverse community.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Allan J
Registered User

Apr 21 2023, 6:25pm

Post #12 of 17 (10383 views)
Shortcut
Scouring left out [In reply to] Can't Post

The Professor mentioned the most frequent complaint he received was his story was too short. I have the same complaint about FOTR movie.

In my perfect world a filmed version of the Hobbit would have been first, to serve as an introduction to middle earth, and provide a solid set-up for LOTR, without all the silly additions and puff that was added in what was eventually released

This way there could have been a fourth movie to include all the adventure post Aragorn's crowning, with a complete Scouring of the Shire. PJ could have done an awesome job with it.


Paulo Gabriel
Lorien

Apr 21 2023, 7:55pm

Post #13 of 17 (10378 views)
Shortcut
Yes. [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course, I meant only the first trilogy.

There seems neverheless to have an implict "consensus" among casual and even the more hardcore fans that the first trilogy is "near perfect" or something, and that the Hobbit one is much inferior to it.

But not EVERYONE shares that opinion, of course.


(This post was edited by Paulo Gabriel on Apr 21 2023, 7:58pm)


elentari3018
Rohan


Sep 9 2023, 10:59pm

Post #14 of 17 (5942 views)
Shortcut
Love this post- thank you! :D [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo

"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series


elentari3018
Rohan


Sep 9 2023, 11:02pm

Post #15 of 17 (5941 views)
Shortcut
There's too much to nitpick but i'll start [In reply to] Can't Post

if we were to translate Frodo's appearance, he should've been a bit older and had that description [i["taller than some and fairer than most, [with] a cleft in his chin: perky chap with a bright eye." He has thick, curly brown hair like most other hobbits but lighter than usual skin.
he was the youngest looking and i thought he could've been older. Then Sam was a bit too chubby- he is a gardener not someone who ate a lot.
Faramir had Raven hair not light brownish hair that PJ casted.

I could think of more but above had already listed the Scouring to be the biggest awful thing that could've been cut. Should have an Extended of it.

"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo

"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series


(This post was edited by elentari3018 on Sep 9 2023, 11:02pm)


Saruman
Bree


Sep 22 2023, 6:20am

Post #16 of 17 (4752 views)
Shortcut
Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

Despite his flaws I do like Elijah Wood as Frodo (probably an unpopular opinion), however I understand your points about his appearance. Like I had mentioned earlier, changing Boromir's hair color to borderline blond doesn't sit well with me, and I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion on Faramir's hair color, as well. There was no reason to make him even blonder than they made Boromir.

Speaking of Boromir and Faramir, Denethor was too harshly condemned by PJ & co., although I love Noble in the role, they wrote him as too much of a bad guy. He really had some layers that were not unpacked in the film verse: his use of the palantir, in particular. The burnt etching of his dead hands on the palantir evermore is such an awesome haunting image. If they would have written Denethor better, this could have been a scene of great emotional impact and a more sympathetic viewing of Denethor on film.

"I have seen it..."


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 22 2023, 1:56pm

Post #17 of 17 (4733 views)
Shortcut
Frodo's Age [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
if we were to translate Frodo's appearance, he should've been a bit older and had that description [i["taller than some and fairer than most, [with] a cleft in his chin: perky chap with a bright eye." He has thick, curly brown hair like most other hobbits but lighter than usual skin.
he was the youngest looking and i thought he could've been older. Then Sam was a bit too chubby- he is a gardener not someone who ate a lot.
Faramir had Raven hair not light brownish hair that PJ casted.

I could think of more but above had already listed the Scouring to be the biggest awful thing that could've been cut. Should have an Extended of it.


To be fair, Frodo is younger in the films thanks to time compression. I would argue that a single year passes between Biilbo's party and the departure of Frodo and Sam from the Shire. This is evidenced by Merry and Pippin (and Sam) already reaching adulthood by T.A. 3000, making Frodo a young adult of 34 years. Jackson's Hobbit trilogy further confirms this via Thranduil's reference to Strider as a young Ranger at the time of the Battle of Five Armies. We know that in Tolkien's legendarium young Estel was only 10 years old at the time of the Quest of Erebor.

“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 22 2023, 1:58pm)

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.