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MEIGWIT
Bree
Nov 8 2013, 8:13pm
Post #1 of 87
(1856 views)
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One thing I think we forget about these fantastic films
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LOTR and The Hobbit in my humble opinion are truly something to behold and marvel at even though films 2 and 3 of TH are yet to be released. After watching all the special features from the new EE, I have been thinking quite a bit over many people's disappointments with certain story elements in AUJ: that many things seemed rushed and unfinished - Azog, the Rhadagast storyline, Biblo's story arc, so on and so forth. I think we easily forget and overlook, because we were not a part of the making of the film and so much has happened in this film's history, that Peter Jackson came on board extremely late as the director with literally 3 months until shooting began. This means he was picking up another director's over 2 years of pre-production work and suddenly realizing Del Torro's Hobbit was not the Hobbit HE wanted to make or even could make. We should all remember that he spent over 2 years of pre-production on Rings as the DIRECTOR. He even said in the special features that once Guillermo Del Torro left and he decided to step in as the director, that he "could not make a film under someone else's vision and decided that if he was going to direct these movies, he needed to make a film he could envision himself." He is a very selfish director for the best of reasons. He wants to make a film that he can enjoy because why make a film if you don't enjoy it as the director and as a fan yourself.
This in turn only meant one thing, that designs, story arcs and so on now all were going to have to shift to accommodate a new vision by Peter. Yes he was a producer and HEAVILY involved during all the pre-production and story writing, but it is obvious now that he really let Del Torro have his own reigns as far as The Hobbit's design and direction was concerned. And I think we need to cut him some slack in our complaints with how unfinished and rushed some, imho, "minor" parts of AUJ are concerned. He has done an unbelievable job given the circumstances. We also forget that he went into the hospital for a perforated ulcer the week before shooting was scheduled to begin!!! He could have died! That is a really serious medical situation and I've known people who have died from that exact same situation. He really had, as said in the special features, 3 months to do what he had over 2 years to do on LOTR! And for anyone that has ever worked in film, it cannot be emphasized enough how vitally important pre-production is! I've been there myself, and bad pre-production means a failed production in the end. That is really an impossible task even for Peter Jackson. Yet he and the cast and the crew did it! And I honestly think they did a remarkable job given the circumstances.
Now we are all sitting and waiting on the second and third film and I have no doubt in my mind that Peter and Co. have finally caught up on all of the "deficiencies" as many on these boards like to call them. (I personally think they are minuscule deficiencies because I really really enjoyed AUJ and think it is perfect in its own right.) It is even more obvious from the special features and new blogs that Peter has enjoyed making the second and third movies more and it is clear that he is much more confident in the story he is telling. I think this is because he feels caught up and knows where he is going. He felt rushed on AUJ and I think he knows that and we should too. I really believe we are in for possibly Jackson's greatest works in these next two films in honor of Tolkien, the fans, and most importantly himself for stepping into a very very horrible situation at the last minute to save the day.
We should really just be grateful that he did step in, because to be quite honest, if he hadn't, we would not be sitting here looking forward to this second and third film, but instead would be sitting here wondering if the films were ever going to be made and begging Jackson to step in and save our beloved Hobbit.
I know I'm only one viewpoint and know some can never be pleased, but I feel that empathy is a good thing and gratitude is always a good response rather than cynicism, complaint, and worst of all pride filled ungratefulness. We should really take a step back as fans and be appreciative and enjoy one fan's creation of a story we all love. I personally feel, that all of these films are the most beautiful movies ever to grace the screens of the cinema and I would like to thank you Peter Jackson for creating not only my favorite films of all time from some of my favorite books of all time, but also being the single reason that I myself desire and hope and pray to one day be a film director. Thank you!
It is the little things in life that keep the darkness at bay.
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 8 2013, 8:20pm
Post #3 of 87
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needs to read the last paragraph of this.
Great post.
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elaen32
Gondor
Nov 8 2013, 8:22pm
Post #5 of 87
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I agree with most of what you say here Meigwit. It must have been a very difficult job to turn things around. Speculating, it makes me wonder if the stress of all the hold ups, GDT leaving the production, labour disputes etc, was what caused PJ's health to suffer.
Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!
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Elskidor
Rohan
Nov 8 2013, 9:02pm
Post #7 of 87
(756 views)
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Enjoyed reading that, and I agree 100%. You can't please everyone, and fans can sometimes be the hardest. Just think of what terrible movies we could have gotten from some horrible director that would have happily slapped together LoTR in some one in a half hour crap film? The world is blessed to have someone like PJ making these wonderful films.
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asfaloth44
Registered User
Nov 8 2013, 9:08pm
Post #8 of 87
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I completely agree with you as well. After watching the EE, it is really evident how much PJ cares about The Hobbit and Middle Earth. Philippa Boyens and Fran Walsh also obviously respect Tolkien and the story quite a bit too.
Thanks MEIGWIT for articulating this.
In the wise words of Gandalf, "Every great story deserves embellishment." All changes made are not arbitrary, but rather address either a practical issue or have been made within the 'spirit of Tolkien.'
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Fleuz
Lorien
Nov 8 2013, 9:08pm
Post #9 of 87
(737 views)
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But I also would be very interested in Peter Jackson's native plan: One Hobbit film and two Lord of the Rings films. Those were rejected from the studio long time ago.
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Annatar598
Rohan
Nov 8 2013, 9:16pm
Post #10 of 87
(868 views)
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I too just finished the entirety of the EE
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GREAT post!!!
PJ's humbleness is what swayed my opinion of AUJ being a great but as my friend called it, "half-assed" at times. Watching the appendices and then the commentary was an eye-opening insight into what hurdles the team went through to get these films to us.
He even went to the length of saying "I do apologize" numerous times in the commentary - CLEARLY aware of AUJ's "deficiencies." One such was the overlong beginning.
I know some say that these movies were ill-planned and lazily put together but that is NOT the case. It's also a problem with those critics who called PJ out for being a sloppy and "tired" director. To understand The Hobbit as a film is to understand that it almost never got made - for the general audience it may be permissible to overlook this aspect (BUT considering AUJ got a solid A grade cinema score, I am grasping. The general audience loved AUJ) but for the fans of these movies it's unforgivable to look at the production of this movie in a multitude of ways.
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Nov 8 2013, 9:23pm
Post #11 of 87
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Very nice! I'm in 100% agreement!
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It amazes me how much some people complain about every little detail of these movies while I'm just grateful someone is making them at all! I think Peter Jackson has dedicated the best work of his life to these films and not only is he very talented and imaginative but he is a fan of the books too! I can't even fully express my appreciation for his efforts. Thank you PJ!
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MEIGWIT
Bree
Nov 8 2013, 9:27pm
Post #12 of 87
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And what I think we can all see and appreciate with these new blogs coming out and seeing Pete on set during the later part of filming and during pickups is that he seemed flat out excited to be making these movies and once again be in Middle Earth. You could tell that he was very heavy and burdened those early days just from his demeanor in meetings and the first few days filming, but he has completely been lifted up now. It is easy to also see that all he wants to do is make a good movie and have a great time doing it. And when you have to fight studios, rights issues, governments, activists, a director leaving, and ulcers, your fun and love of filmmaking is ripped from your soul! I can't understand how he pushed through! I would have given up, but you can just see that he just wanted to make a great movie from the beginning, but had to fight the world to get it to happen. He is one of the most determined people I've ever seen. If anyone ever has the chance to read his biography, it really is one of the best reads I've ever had! I'm just happy that he can now enjoy himself and finish out these films strong, because I think we are all going to be rewarded by his undying persistence!
It is the little things in life that keep the darkness at bay.
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jtarkey
Rohan
Nov 8 2013, 9:34pm
Post #13 of 87
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There are simply people who feel Jackson did a disservice to Tolkien and his own LOTR adaptations with the way he chose to adapt The Hobbit.
This doesn't mean Jackson is ill-willed, or evil. He is a person just like everyone else who has feelings. I'm sure he is making these films in the best way that he feels he can and in a way he is at least reasonably happy with.
But there is no requirement to be grateful. I am paying to see these movies. Some people simply didn't like some of the creative decisions he has made.
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"
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FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rohan
Nov 8 2013, 9:38pm
Post #14 of 87
(685 views)
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100000% Agree with you! Fantastic post, MEIGWIT!//
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 ..The Lord of Silver Fountains
.....The King of Carven Stone
..The King Under the Mountain
.......Shall come into his own
..And the bells will ring in gladness
......At the Mountain King's return
..But all shall fail in sadness
....And the lake will shine and burn
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MEIGWIT
Bree
Nov 8 2013, 9:44pm
Post #15 of 87
(700 views)
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This is completely fair and I understand the sentiment. My post was generally trying to give reasons and motivations behind some of these disappointments and probably hoping to sway some to enjoy the films a little more despite their disagreements with some decisions. I don't like to see disappointed people, haha, and I'm sure neither does Peter. But your point is fair and I understand not everyone sees the same way, which is also what makes other fan's creations enjoyable as well.
It is the little things in life that keep the darkness at bay.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Nov 8 2013, 9:46pm
Post #16 of 87
(702 views)
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Bomby Thinks you Need
to Thank Fran
for keeping PJ
Sane?
Richard Taylor, John Howe , Alan Lee, & Sir Ian McKellen
for being PJ's Rocks to lean on.
Granted
that PJ izz a Hobbit
DISGUISED
As Film director..
Bomby
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Nov 8 2013, 9:49pm)
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MEIGWIT
Bree
Nov 8 2013, 9:49pm
Post #17 of 87
(676 views)
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I know my wife keeps me sane in my darkest moments haha! He definitely has the best and most seasoned support team to keep him going for sure!
It is the little things in life that keep the darkness at bay.
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jtarkey
Rohan
Nov 8 2013, 9:53pm
Post #18 of 87
(672 views)
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There are things I loved about AUJ and other things I had big problems with. My criticisms tend to lean more to the film making side of things rather than the adaptation side.
I do think the spirit involved in making these films is pretty amazing. The camaraderie that developed between the cast and crew is astounding for both the LOTR trilogy and The Hobbit.
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"
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Lissuin
Valinor
Nov 8 2013, 9:55pm
Post #19 of 87
(670 views)
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I would have given up, but you can just see that he just wanted to make a great movie from the beginning, but had to fight the world to get it to happen.
And very importantly:
We should really just be grateful that he did step in, because to be quite honest, if he hadn't, we would not be sitting here looking forward to this second and third film, but instead would be sitting here wondering if the films were ever going to be made and begging Jackson to step in and save our beloved Hobbit.
Which we had been doing for a decade.
All very very well said, MEIGWIT.
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R11
Lorien
Nov 8 2013, 10:04pm
Post #20 of 87
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Everyone on this forum needs to read the last paragraph of this.
I don't appreciate these ridiculous joke films at all and after seeing what PJ has done with them I personally do wish they had never been done now. So what exactly is it I should be grateful for? Trying to say that everyone should be grateful for them just because they were made seems pretty odd. But it doesn't surprise me to see this type of sentiment because that's exactly the kind of thing I've seen since details of the films finally began to emerge. Over and over and over again I've watched people bend over backwards compromising their own desires and talking themselves into being ok with the BS stuff just because they are desperate to get anything, even if it's very little like what they had hoped for. Sorry, no dumpster diving for me....
I don't dislike Peter now but I really do hate his dumbed down for the mainstream masses Hobbit movies. Heck, I'm even grudgingly happy for the less militant of those that do like them. But I can't find any reasons to be grateful myself.
ron
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Nov 8 2013, 10:05pm
Post #21 of 87
(648 views)
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There May Be
a day like
Bomby's days & Nights
when Your Goldberry
Passes into the West
before you.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Nov 8 2013, 10:15pm
Post #22 of 87
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All the films are phenomenal and I am very appreciative of what PJ, the actors and the rest of the team working on the films have achieved. (I sometimes think we take the films for granted without considering what a massive creative effort they are, and how much talent and enthusiasm they involve.)
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star
Rivendell
Nov 8 2013, 10:23pm
Post #23 of 87
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I am just grateful that the movies were made, I have enjoyed every moment of them.
I love the books for what they are and I love the movies for what they are, I am able to appreciate them both.I am so grateful for Tolkien writing them and sharing his world with us as much as I am appreciative of the effort PJ has put in to bring them to life. ( be it his way ) He has almost sweated blood making those movies. If it was not for PJ we would simply just be an online Tolkien book club, nothing more.
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RosieLass
Valinor
Nov 8 2013, 10:41pm
Post #24 of 87
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I think everyone's opinions are valid.
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And as long as we aren't attacking the filmmakers (or each other) personally, I think there is room for all kinds of viewpoints.
I don't hate the films, but I don't love them, either. They're just "ok."
Peter Jackson is in the business of creating films. He is not owed, nor do I think he expects, gratitude. He wants people to come see his films and go away and talk about them. That's what we're doing, even those people who say "I hate them, they suck."
I'm glad there are so many people who love these movies. I'm not one of them. I would have preferred that someone other than Peter Jackson made the Hobbit movies, and I was disappointed when he did step in.
And I don't see any need to keep my negative opinions to myself.
Basically all I'm saying is, feel free to praise Peter Jackson and his movies all you want. Just don't begrudge me the opportunity to criticize and be disappointed.
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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Thranderz
Rohan
Nov 8 2013, 10:42pm
Post #25 of 87
(594 views)
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I think they're amazing films anyway! 
I simply walked into Mordor.
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