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Adam Weishaupt
Registered User
Nov 16, 5:25am
Post #1 of 9
(672 views)
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Tolkien Content Creators and A.I.
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This may sound like gatekeeping, but I am trying to be objective as possible with this post, it is just too easy to see content that attempts to hit all of the advertising "sweet spots" used for monetization. While I may not like what is happening, I also understand how the world works. These are just my observations.
I have noticed a recent trend, that has accelerated greatly over the last year or so. A new "crew" of content creators have been uploading videos that are obviously made by AI. They have all the tell-tale signs of AI as well. Mispronounced words, repetitive sentence starters, mass uploads, engagement bait (buzzwords, sensationalism), and artwork that has nothing to do with the legendarium.
A large number of these videos contain text that is noticeably generated by AI, creating a voiceover that is read (almost always) by a fake british accent. And these aren't even the rampant fanfic that is usually horrid. On that last point, I have never actually read Tolkien fanfic, but I am going to assume it is horrid.
I have gathered a list of "old school" content creators that I trust to at least be authentic and genuine. People who really love the stories and strive to keep thoughtful on the subject while have a firm grasp on the subject. Folks like "In Deep Geek," "Men of the West," and "Darth Gandalf" all never seem to fail me. They are definitely NOT AI creators.
I have a sneaking suspicion that creators like them are going the way of the Dodo. The barrier of entry has dropped to zero, done by creators that may have never even picked up a Tolkien book. Videos and essays that may have taken weeks to build are simply overmatched by the shear speed and ease that AI offers, even if it is unauthentic as can be.
I am interested in your experiences and your thoughts. Back to lurking.
(This post was edited by Adam Weishaupt on Nov 16, 5:26am)
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noWizardme
Gondolin
Nov 16, 12:26pm
Post #2 of 9
(636 views)
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"How shall any fandom withstand such numbers and such relentless slop?"
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Firstly, welcome Adam Weishaupt (I missed your earlier 'hello' post).
If it is gatekeeping to prefer good content to bad, then let us all be gatekeepers, I say.
The problem of AI slop overwhelming the Internet is general, I have heard. And any solutions are probably to do with forcing YouTube and the like to exercise control over what they publish, at a substantial cost to them of lost revenue, but at a substantial gain to the readers or watchers of their content. Which is a political (regulatory) problem, and so not something really in the scope of this forum. Or will be left to market forces, causing the profitability of social media to collapse once the process that Cory Doctorov calls 'enshittification' goes too far.
And whither then, I cannot say.
Meanwhile, what can we do? I think you have the right idea supporting the people whose stuff you like. And that may go beyond just watching their stuff (and the adverts) or, here, reading it.
And, as a general point (because we've only just 'met' and I have no idea what you personally do) perhaps there are further ways to offer support. People still write books, and articles in magazines which can be purchased - a traditional but still fuinctional model for supporting an author and editor's labours. The subscriptions or other payments that authors request for online work might, on occasion, be good value too.
There is probably a sense in which the fandom gets what it pays for - though not always paid in money
For example on this forum, I seem to have contributed 6496 posts to the site (this will be number 6497). My main motivation for posting isn't monetisation or notoriety: it's having a discussion with other peoeple who also want to think about this stuff and have a polite and thoughtful discourse about it. That model of course requires other people to come forward and post things too, whcih seems to happen less now than it once did. So that is another way for people to support human-generated content rather than amusing themselves to death with AI slop.
Thanks for starting this discussion, and please do not feel you have to go back to lurking. If we do want forums like these to persist, then lurkers are shirkers. Contributions, no matter how brief or modest, are what keep things going.
~~~~~~
"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
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CuriousG
Gondolin
Nov 17, 5:39pm
Post #4 of 9
(577 views)
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Mordor's Airlines Hate It When You Use This Shocking Secret Travel Tip To Save Money
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I'm much more of a reader than a video watcher, so while in the past I've watched some Tolkien commenters on YouTube, that was mostly during COVID, I think. Otherwise I like your idea of keeping alive a list of authentic Tolkien people on YT, but I just have no one to contribute myself.
And trying to sort out the slop from the real will be a challenge, I think, when I recall a video guy on YT who commented on "The Expanse." He not only read the books but had good insight into the plot and character motivations, and he commented on the TV show and filled in a lot of blanks for me, which is what I enjoyed most--but he NEVER appeared on screen that I recall and was voice-only, so his YT videos were a mix of clips and stills. I think AI could imitate that format very easily, but it could never equate the quality of thoughtfulness he delivered. Hence I think in any area in the future, a viewer will have to sort through a lot of slop to find the real quality, which was already a challenge when YT was humans-only.
Anyway, I agree with your points with much agreement, and I like the idea of having a trusted list of quality Tolkien providers here, and no one says it's exhaustive. TORN is known as a quality site, so it's a natural sort of alliance.
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Annael
Elvenhome
Nov 17, 8:18pm
Post #5 of 9
(572 views)
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sadly it isn't the fault of AI
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I've been in writing classes with people who want to know "the formula" for writing a bestseller. Much like the "suits" who will only fund movie scripts that follow a plot that has been successful in the past. True creativity--and AI is not capable of that--means making some new and untried. There's no algorithm for such work.
The real problem though is that people will pay for it. I'm a big fantasy fan, as are most of us, but most of the stuff being published today is, imho, total cr*p--especially what I call "elf porn"--and yet it sells. The person who just wants to think of themselves as an "author" without having anything new to say will happily use AI, and people will read what they put out. Ditto movies, ditto other content.
I am a dreamer of words, of written words.
-- Gaston Bachelard
* * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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noWizardme
Gondolin
Sun, 2:47pm
Post #6 of 9
(118 views)
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I'm more concerned about this forum collapsing under the weight of scraper bots.
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There is, of course, a debate that goes on about just how lazy people are to use AI, or whether like NaNoWriMo's contraversial stance of 2024, it shouldn't be rejected 'categorically'
For folks interested in that, This article from LitHub "NaNoWriMo defends writing with AI and pisses off the whole internet" gets beyond the tone of that headline and the author - creditably - tries to understand NaNoWriMo's position (before disagreeing with it in a thoughtful way).
I'm more interested in noting that our own forum has been rendered briefly unusable several times of late because of scraper bots. I find I don't like that, and so my attitude to AI starts to be affected by the inconveninece that the extractive needs of AI are causing in my own experience.
To paraphrase Gandalf:
Ever since the bots came I have been concerned about our charming, absurd, nerdy forum. It would be a grievous blow to the world, if the Dark Power overcame TORN; if all your kind, jolly, Tolkien-obsessed Bolgers, Hornblowers, Boffins, Bracegirdles, and the rest, not to mention the ridiculous NoWizardMe's, became unable to chat about Tolkien.
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"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
(This post was edited by noWizardme on Sun, 2:49pm)
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Sun, 4:10pm
Post #7 of 9
(107 views)
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Why don't we all add to your list of good content creators we like to support?
I am uneasy with this concept of a list. Lists historically have been misused.
It sounds a little too "1984" for me. Snobbish and cliquish at the least, and this website's reputation doesn't need more of that.
Who maintains a list? What/who makes it presumptuously "official?" What right do we have to create such a thing for an Intellectual Property we don't own? Does a sanctioned - meaning approved in this case - list represent a liability to this website? What of the people not listed? Is it fair to them to be lumped in by implication with the miscreants not listed? How meaningful is it really? Is there an application or appeal process? Forums are notoriously poor receptacles of knowledge with its serial nature and flight of ideas. Where is the list maintained to be edited for reference - on the main website?
Personally, it seems like a great hassle to be responsible for list maintenance. Maybe get an AI to do it?
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Sun, 4:11pm)
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Meneldor
Doriath
12:04am
Post #8 of 9
(48 views)
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Why don't we all add to your list of good content creators we like to support? I am uneasy with this concept of a list. Lists historically have been misused. It sounds a little too "1984" for me. Snobbish and cliquish at the least, and this website's reputation doesn't need more of that. Who maintains a list? What/who makes it presumptuously "official?" What right do we have to create such a thing for an Intellectual Property we don't own? Does a sanctioned - meaning approved in this case - list represent a liability to this website? What of the people not listed? Is it fair to them to be lumped in by implication with the miscreants not listed? How meaningful is it really? Is there an application or appeal process? Forums are notoriously poor receptacles of knowledge with its serial nature and flight of ideas. Where is the list maintained to be edited for reference - on the main website? Personally, it seems like a great hassle to be responsible for list maintenance. Maybe get an AI to do it?
If there's a Tolkien content creator you like, just tell us who they are and where to find them, and we can choose to have a look for ourselves to see if we like them.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
1:53am
Post #9 of 9
(30 views)
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If there's a Tolkien content creator you like, just tell us who they are and where to find them, and we can choose to have a look for ourselves to see if we like them.
"Us," Kemo Sahbee? You describe a discussion, freedom of choice, and personal responsibility and intellect - not a list. Better.
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