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The concept of utmost despair for our characters
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noWizardme
Gondolin


Tue, 6:46pm

Post #26 of 38 (11318 views)
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Another for the list: In Cirith Ungol, Sam cannot find Frodo [In reply to] Can't Post


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He ran back to the lower storey and tried the door. It would not move. He ran up again, and sweat began to trickle down his face. He felt that even minutes were precious, but one by one they escaped; and he could do nothing. He cared no longer for Shagrat or Snaga or any other orc that was ever spawned. He longed only for his master, for one sight of his face or one touch of his hand.
At last, weary and feeling finally defeated, he sat on a step below the level of the passage-floor and bowed his head into his hands. It was quiet, horribly quiet. The torch, that was already burning low when he arrived, sputtered and went out; and he felt the darkness cover him like a tide. And then softly, to his own surprise, there at the vain end of his long journey and his grief, moved by what thought in his heart he could not tell, Sam began to sing.

His voice sounded thin and quavering in the cold dark tower: the voice of a forlorn and weary hobbit that no listening orc could possibly mistake for the clear song of an Elven-lord. He murmured old childish tunes out of the Shire, and snatches of Mr. Bilbo’s rhymes that came into his mind like fleeting glimpses of the country of his home. And then suddenly new strength rose in him, and his voice rang out, while words of his own came unbidden to fit the simple tune.
In western lands beneath the Sun
the flowers may rise in Spring...


~~~~~~
"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.


CuriousG
Gondolin


Tue, 7:35pm

Post #27 of 38 (11247 views)
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Faramir doesn't get all the credit [In reply to] Can't Post

I see how I created that impression, but I think Eowyn-Faramir are in it 50-50.


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Therefore, somehow she grew from her wanting to die and not being caged and whatever good feelings Faramir gave to her was sufficient. Should we credit all that Faramir's doing though?

She wasn't going to come back to a life of hope on her own, and she needed human connection, and he was it. What happened next, they cooked up together, with him as the spark for the fire that had gone out in her.



CuriousG
Gondolin


Wed, 12:33am

Post #28 of 38 (10192 views)
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Nice perspective on Merry helping Eowyn vs the Wi-king [In reply to] Can't Post


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For Merry, I'm not entirely sure whether he was in despair/without hope, or whether he wasn't really thinking in those terms at all and everything was simply immediate, and full of choices, without really much room for him to know if he was feeling despair or not.


Good insight, Ethel. While he was in conflict, he didn't have the luxury to weigh all his options or engage in much introspection:


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Going from:
‘King’s man! King’s man!’ his heart cried within him. ‘You must stay by him. As a father you shall be to me, you said.’ But his will made no answer, and his body shook. He dared not open his eyes or look up.

To:
Pity filled his heart and great wonder, and suddenly the slow-kindled courage of his race awoke. He clenched his hand. She should not die, so fair, so desperate! At least she should not die alone, unaided.

I'm trying to think my way through Merry's feelings and actions, but he did no such thing: he was a blur of instincts and principles and fear and inspired courage, all very immediate as you point out, and he just acted on a very hasty plan and on whatever emotions took hold of him. I do think that overall, Merry was determined to do what was right, even if he was in a situation for over his head.


noWizardme
Gondolin


Wed, 8:18am

Post #29 of 38 (8489 views)
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Bewilderment and Trust [In reply to] Can't Post

Duty drives several of our characters, but I'm going to argue that this requires trust.

Prof Tom Shippey ("TS") did a talk for Swathmore College called "Tolkien Book to Jackson Script: The Medium and the Message" The audio transcript I've just linked to is a bit rambly. Maybe it was a Really Good Dinner. Or maybe the clear way one argument follows another in Prof Shippey's books shows the hand of his editor. Either way, there's a lot of good stuff in that talk, and I'm going to excerpt some, hopefully without that causing distortion.

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The characters are often bewildered and they're bewildered in two senses. They're bewildered because they're lost in wilder land, they don't know where they are. Sometimes of course, they discuss where they are. Mary and Pippin are particularly lost because they're too idle ever to look at a map. But even Aragorn has a good idea where everything is, he is often lost in the sense of not being sure what to do. So they're bewildered in being lost in wilder land, but they're also bewildered in they don't know what to do. Aragorn in particular feels this strongly I think at the start of book two, because he has to make a string of decisions. Okay, Mary and Pippin have been carried off. Frodo and Sam have gone off in the other direction. Who's he gonna follow? Mary and Pippin, they've been taken by Orcs...
A lot of it is an effect of the complex separations which take place. Like I say, first movie road movie. Second movie, second book characters are going off in all directions. Frodo and Sam, Mary and Pippin, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli. Gandalf comes in, they swap over then Pippin goes off with Gandalf. Mary goes off with the riders or goes off with Éowyn. The characters are zipping backwards and forwards all the time. Gandalf sort of criss-crossing...


This very complicated set of movements was simplified for the PJ movies - probably inevitably in the medium of film to avoid confusion and have continuity, TS thinks. But he feels the sense of bewilderment caused by these movements was lost in the films. Also, that the movies lost the sense that trying to learn more by palantir usually does more harm than good.

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And why does he [Tolkien in his books] have this complex net of criss-crossings and bewilderments and speculations? Well I'd say the answer to that, is fairly clear. What he's saying is, and I can sum it up in four words, which is the old motto of the British Red Coat. Which is, "Look to your front." You don't look to the sides, don't look to see what your mates are doing. You don't need to know that, cause if you're looking to see what they're doing. They'll be looking to see what you're doing. And you will have frightened each other in no time. Certainly don't look behind you, look to your front. Or another way that it's put and this time it's Gandalf's words. Gandalf talking to Frodo early on in the book and repeated twice actually by Jackson.

He says, "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us". All we have to do is decide what we're going to do. Do not think about other people. Once you start making your decisions on the basis of what you think other peoples decisions will be, you are speculating. And when you start speculating, you will inevitably get it wrong. You will actually frighten yourself, and drive yourself to wrong conclusions. Like Denethor and indeed like Sauron. Well, I think actually in the book all that's quite clear. It's a statement about the way events are in the real world. It's telling you what is the right procedure in the real world. But in the movies, it's quite different... .


Potentially good life advice for troubled times there.

But I think the 'look to your front' method relies on trust. I don't see Frodo or Sam ever worrying themselves that they might be the victims of soem Wizardly plot by Gandalf, perhaps cooked up with the elves. Boromir thinks this and looks what happens to him. Nor do they worry that other characters are up to political manouvers, as Denethor does. Frodo carries on into Mordor despite seeing an apparently entirely invincible army set out from Minas Morghul (see the OP). The Captains of the West advance on ordor with an entirely er... vincible army, and it occurs to nobody that Frodo has given up or handed the Ring to Sauron. Instead, the necessity is to give Frodo every last minute of time to do his job.
By contrast, the opposing forces are all each one for himself.

~~~~~~
"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.


CuriousG
Gondolin


Wed, 3:09pm

Post #30 of 38 (6893 views)
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"By contrast, the opposing forces are all each one for himself." [In reply to] Can't Post

I was musing along similar lines as I peruse the book and re-read comments here. "Consolation in time of troubles" feels like a 100-head hydra, because a lot is wrong, more than just one thing. And arguably, there's not too much wrong in Middle-earth once you get rid of Sauron (I said not too much, meaning he's not the only problem). But maybe Sauron is the root or heart of the hydra that the 100 heads spring from. Anyway, facing multiple challenges is daunting in itself even if one "Looks to your front," because you can see more than one problem to face off against.

And I don't have an answer to that, but I was thinking that the successful, good people in LOTR 1) trust the Cosmic Good, 2) trust their friends, and 3) take meaningful action to support their friends and have 100% faith their friends will reciprocate. We can go all the way back to Crickhollow where Frodo's friends pledge to give up their comfortable, easy lives in the Shire to accompany him. And then think of every danger along the way and write a not-Tolkien version:

1. Old Man Willow: "Well," Frodo said, wiping away an imaginary tear as he explained to Bombadil, "I'll miss Merry and Pippin, but it was too dangerous to help them."
2. Fog on the Barrow-downs: "Of course," Bombadil nodded to Frodo, "leaving your friends to die in the Barrow while you run free is the choice anyone would make, even me."
3. Post-Weathertop: "Of course," Aragorn explained, "anyone can bear the Ring, so you take it, Sam, and we'll leave Frodo behind in the wilderness, because he's wounded and slowing us down and will just become a wraith anyway." The others agreed. It's a choice anyone would make to survive.

So we don't get any of Bill Ferny in the main characters, and no one even wrestles with ethical conflicts like that. And as you pointed out, Boromir and Eomer distrust Lorien, but the others don't. Gimli even becomes a convert!

There's a trust that there's Cosmic Good manifesting itself in the world, if you know where to look for it, and if you know who to trust. And men of Rohan and Gondor never had a reason to distrust Lorien, that's just ignorant prejudice at play. Like hobbits in Hobbiton saying Bucklanders are queer and vice versa.

I think this basic trust in each other and that there's as much as good in the world as evil is something that gives the characters resilience.


CuriousG
Gondolin


Wed, 3:25pm

Post #31 of 38 (6834 views)
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Sam keeps going when Frodo is ready to give up [In reply to] Can't Post


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Do hobbits have an internal power to handle despair and be extra resilient against the powers of evil? I think that is another hobbit superpower, one in which the Wise think that they would be less suspect to the power of the Ring- it's because they keep going despite the darkness that the Ring emulates.


Hobbits' superpower of not giving up. OK, this counts as utmost despair: when you're alone in a hell-landscape, surrounded by lava on a volcano, and you're starving to death and dehydrated. And really, the lava!

It's a good contrast between Frodo's big-picture/existential despair and Sam's smaller-picture pragmatism. Sure, they might still die in the fire, but couldn't they move a little out of the way? Sam doesn't have all the answers, but he sees a way to make a little improvement in their situation, and he acts on it. I think there's a lot of wisdom in that, when faced with an overwhelmingly bad situation. It's reasonable to conclude that Sam bought them some extra time they needed for rescue, and if they hadn't moved, Gwaihir would have found cinders instead of hobbits, so even doing a little when you can't fix The Big Thing can leave you better off.


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‘I am glad that you are here with me,’ said Frodo. ‘Here at the end of all things, Sam.’

‘Yes, I am with you, Master,’ said Sam, laying Frodo’s wounded hand gently to his breast. ‘And you’re with me. And the journey’s finished. But after coming all that way I don’t want to give up yet. It’s not like me, somehow, if you understand.’

‘Maybe not, Sam,’ said Frodo; ‘but it’s like things are in the world. Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall, and there is no escape.’

‘Well, Master, we could at least go further from this dangerous place here, from this Crack of Doom, if that’s its name. Now couldn’t we? Come, Mr. Frodo, let’s go down the path at any rate!’

‘Very well, Sam. If you wish to go, I’ll come,’ said Frodo;...Frodo and Sam could go no further. Their last strength of mind and body was swiftly ebbing. They had reached a low ashen hill piled at the Mountain’s foot; but from it there was no more escape.

But even while he spoke so, to keep fear away until the very last, his eyes still strayed north, north into the eye of the wind, to where the sky far off was clear, as the cold blast, rising to a gale, drove back the darkness and the ruin of the clouds.
...
two small dark figures, forlorn, hand in hand upon a little hill, while the world shook under them, and gasped, and rivers of fire drew near. And even as he espied them and came swooping down, he saw them fall, worn out, or choked with fumes and heat, or stricken down by despair at last, hiding their eyes from death.




Meneldor
Doriath


Wed, 4:23pm

Post #32 of 38 (6616 views)
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Yes. [In reply to] Can't Post


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For Merry, I'm not entirely sure whether he was in despair/without hope, or whether he wasn't really thinking in those terms at all and everything was simply immediate, and full of choices, without really much room for him to know if he was feeling despair or not.


Good insight, Ethel. While he was in conflict, he didn't have the luxury to weigh all his options or engage in much introspection:


Quote
Going from:
‘King’s man! King’s man!’ his heart cried within him. ‘You must stay by him. As a father you shall be to me, you said.’ But his will made no answer, and his body shook. He dared not open his eyes or look up.

To:
Pity filled his heart and great wonder, and suddenly the slow-kindled courage of his race awoke. He clenched his hand. She should not die, so fair, so desperate! At least she should not die alone, unaided.

I'm trying to think my way through Merry's feelings and actions, but he did no such thing: he was a blur of instincts and principles and fear and inspired courage, all very immediate as you point out, and he just acted on a very hasty plan and on whatever emotions took hold of him. I do think that overall, Merry was determined to do what was right, even if he was in a situation for over his head.

As a C-130 flight engineer, I flew many combat missions in Iraq and I remember what it was like when the missile warning system went off and we had to take evasive action and pop flares to avoid getting hit. For me, there was no time for introspection or worrying about what might happen; the moment was all about doing what had to be done. I was totally focused on scanning for threats, operating systems, and monitoring gauges, and I had no time to pay attention to anything like being afraid. Winston Churchill once said, "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result." It certainly brought my mind to a very sharp focus as I concentrated on keeping myself and my crew alive. I think for me my biggest fear was that I would make a mistake and get people killed. At those moments, there was no room in my head for anything else. It's not that the situation isn't scary; there's just no time to waste on fear. People trained for such things respond as they have been trained. As you said, it's very instinctive and immediate. At least it was for me.




They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107


Ethel Duath
Gondolin


Wed, 10:11pm

Post #33 of 38 (5272 views)
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What an electrifying first–hand account. [In reply to] Can't Post

(I bet you were there at the same time as my brother–he did the electronics works on F-15C's at a base so far out in the Saudi desert that the one Scud missile that came anywhere near fell helplessly into the sand, I think a couple of miles away.)

Yes, that was my feeling about Merry, even though I've never been in combat. I have been in emergency situations, though, and that is kind of what you do if you're in the mental state that allows you to focus on solutions, or at least survival.

And that's where the training would come in, I expect, because it's not always easy to be in that mental state especially when things are unexpected. Merry had certainly had some what you might call on the job training by that time, even though it wasn't scientifically or methodically done like it is in the military. It seems unlikely, although maybe not impossible, that he would've behaved the same way if those events had somehow taken place in the Shire before he had ever gone much of anywhere. I have the feeling that even if he had mustered the courage in those circumstances, it would've taken him a lot longer to react and that would've been too late.

Love that Churchill quote.



CuriousG
Gondolin


1:15am

Post #34 of 38 (4812 views)
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Merry over time [In reply to] Can't Post


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Merry had certainly had some what you might call on the job training by that time, even though it wasn't scientifically or methodically done like it is in the military. It seems unlikely, although maybe not impossible, that he would've behaved the same way if those events had somehow taken place in the Shire before he had ever gone much of anywhere.

It's one of the heart-warming things about LOTR that no one is born a hero, but ordinary people can grow into one over time. Think of Merry vs the Wi-king on Weathertop vs on the Pelennor. The first time he shrank away in fear, doing nothing to defend or help Frodo despite their friendship and kinship--an observation, not a judgment!

But as you said, he's been trained and has grown along the way, and while he's still no Fingolfin banging on Morgoth's door, the very picture of heroic courage, he's ready to deal with the Wi-king the 2nd time when he's inspired by Eowyn, and his spirit finds a way to rally his mind and body (and magic sword), which it had been struggling to do.



CuriousG
Gondolin


1:22am

Post #35 of 38 (4786 views)
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Thanks for sharing that with us [In reply to] Can't Post

I have heard similar things in Hollywood movies, but I'm deeply skeptical of anything Hollywood does regarding the reality of military life, so having you validate it firsthand is quite valuable. More than one Hollywood drill instructor has said something like "We're training you and training you so when things go crazy, you'll know what to do instead of panic and freeze and die," so I guess they get that right.

TORN member Brethil, who used to be active here, worked/works as an emergency room nurse and commented something similar, that a very messy human body could come in the door, and that was when training in life-saving techniques took over instead of gasping in horror, etc. She even said she didn't think about it until afterwards that she'd saved someone's life, she was just doing what was needed and what she'd learned to do with repeat experience.

It sorta seems like emergency situations are less about fear vs. courage and more about fear vs. training, with training filling the void that fear otherwise thrives in.


(This post was edited by CuriousG on 1:23am)


Meneldor
Doriath


2:50am

Post #36 of 38 (4443 views)
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Could be. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
(I bet you were there at the same time as my brother–he did the electronics works on F-15C's at a base so far out in the Saudi desert that the one Scud missile that came anywhere near fell helplessly into the sand, I think a couple of miles away.)

One of the last Scud missiles they fired fell into the desert 4 miles away from me when I was at King Fahd Int'l Airport in '91. From the boom it made when it went off I would have guessed it hit a quarter mile away.




They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107


Meneldor
Doriath


2:53am

Post #37 of 38 (4427 views)
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Yes, that's something they sometimes get right. [In reply to] Can't Post


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More than one Hollywood drill instructor has said something like "We're training you and training you so when things go crazy, you'll know what to do instead of panic and freeze and die," so I guess they get that right.

TORN member Brethil, who used to be active here, worked/works as an emergency room nurse and commented something similar, that a very messy human body could come in the door, and that was when training in life-saving techniques took over instead of gasping in horror, etc. She even said she didn't think about it until afterwards that she'd saved someone's life, she was just doing what was needed and what she'd learned to do with repeat experience.

It sorta seems like emergency situations are less about fear vs. courage and more about fear vs. training, with training filling the void that fear otherwise thrives in.

It's a common saying, and a true one I believe, that people are less likely to rise to the occasion than they are to sink to the level of their training. So yes, good training is invaluable.

I miss Brethil.




They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107


noWizardme
Gondolin


2:12pm

Post #38 of 38 (1883 views)
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‘Steady the Buffs, give the Slashers a chance!’ [In reply to] Can't Post


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"Consolation in time of troubles" feels like a 100-head hydra, because a lot is wrong, more than just one thing. And arguably, there's not too much wrong in Middle-earth once you get rid of Sauron (I said not too much, meaning he's not the only problem). But maybe Sauron is the root or heart of the hydra that the 100 heads spring from. Anyway, facing multiple challenges is daunting in itself even if one "Looks to your front," because you can see more than one problem to face off against.


Yes indeed. If asked to elaborate on what Tom Shippey means by 'look to your front' being good life advice, I'd guess he means something like try to conentrate on problems you can actually do something about, rather than waste energy on things about which you can do nothing. Instead, trust that others are dealing with those. But that of course is hard to do. Harder, probably, outside the emergency situations that we're discussing on other subthreads, where the very immediate and personal presence of emergency concentrates the mind.

Back in 1919, WB Yeats wrote:

Quote
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.


I was reminded of that poem because I was reading a news report of Musa Kabba, the foreign minister of Sierra Leone, quoting it at a UN Consultative Meeting to spur action about ....about ....well, yet another potentially existential problem which I won't trouble you with if it's not on your worry list already. Yep, multiple challenges.

Yeats of course was thinking of the multiple challenges of his own time: perhaps the just-finished First World War, the 1918-19 influenza pandemic (which had nearly killed his pregnant wife). Oh and Bloody revolution in Russia, and now the Polish-Soviet war! And, Yeats being an Irishman, he's writing after the Easter Rising and roughly at the start of the Irish War of Independence (the Irish Civil War lies ahead). A longer list of 1919 events gives one even more 'blood-dimmed tide' to take in. SO much for teh "War to end all wars".
While Yeats had only his newspapers to tell him stuff, it's never been easier than now to find information (and even more misinformation) about world problems to worry about, and calls to action, punditry, speculation, conspiracy theories.. So I suppose peoeple wanting to help either spread ourselves thinly (donations and petition signatures all round) or really pitch into some cause or activity. But whatever you choose to do means not doing something else.

And (Moving on back to Tolkien criticism) that is specifically the bind some LOTR characters find themselves in. Sam, looking into Galadriel's mirror more eagerly than Frodo:

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Like a dream the vision shifted and went back, and he saw the trees again. But this time they were not so close, and he could see what was going on: they were not waving in the wind, they were falling, crashing to the ground.
'Hi!' cried Sam in an outraged voice. 'There’s that Ted Sandyman a-cutting down trees as he shouldn’t. They didn’t ought to be felled: it’s that avenue beyond the Mill that shades the road to Bywater. I wish I could get at Ted, and I’d fell him!'
But now Sam noticed that the Old Mill had vanished, and a large red-brick building was being put up where it had stood. Lots of folk were busily at work. There was a tall red chimney nearby. Black smoke seemed to cloud the surface of the Mirror.

'There’s some devilry at work in the Shire,' he said. ‘Elrond knew what he was about when he wanted to send Mr. Merry back.' Then suddenly Sam gave a cry and sprang away. 'I can’t stay here,' he said wildly. 'I must go home. They’ve dug up Bagshot Row, and there’s the poor old Gaffer going down the Hill with his bits of things on a barrow. I must go home!'
'You cannot go home alone,' said the Lady. 'You did not wish to go home without your master before you looked in the Mirror, and yet you knew that evil things might well be happening in the Shire. Remember that the Mirror shows many things, and not all have yet come to pass. Some never come to be, unless those that behold the visions turn aside from their path to prevent them.'


It's foreshadowing for Scouring Of The Shire of course, but I think it's also there to show Sam's pain at realising that the choice he (and Merry, and Pippin) made not to abandon Frodo means abandoning The Shire to whatever fate it may be enduring.
Sam might be even more upset if he correctly understood his vision of "Frodo with a pale face lying asleep under a great dark cliff". But that has to wait for Choices of Master Samwise and -- gosh -- another item for our list of temporary despair:

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Presently he came back, and bending looked at Frodo’s face, pale beneath him in the dusk. And suddenly he saw that he was in the picture that was revealed to him in the mirror of Galadriel in Lórien: Frodo with a pale face lying fast asleep under a great dark cliff. Or fast asleep he had thought then. ‘He’s dead!’ he said. ‘Not asleep, dead!’ And as he said it, as if the words had set the venom to its work again, it seemed to him that the hue of the face grew livid green.
And then black despair came down on him, and Sam bowed to the ground, and drew his grey hood over his head, and night came into his heart, and he knew no more.


I've sometimes wondered why Tolkien wrote that particular vision into what Sam sees. I'm now thinking that it might that Sam thinks Frodo's (apparent) death is fore-ordained, strengthening his idea that he is 'meant' to go on alone, heartbreaking though he finds it. But also/ alternatively we can reflect on Sam looking in the mirror and not understanding that he may have a moment at least where he has given up protecting the trees in Bywater for nothing.

Lastly, OK, so why my post title, ‘Steady the Buffs, give the Slashers a chance!’ ?
'Steady the buffs' is a phrase used by Kipling a few times, and Kipling fans and scholars say:

Quote

Steady the Buffs! Kipling quotes this phrase in three different stories – this one, “Poor Dear Mama” (The Story of the Gadsbys), and “The Last Term” (Stalky & Co.)

The source of this quotation was discussed on the Kipling Mailbase in 2001 and 2002, the following being based on the comments by Roger Ayers, Michael Jefferson, and Tim Connell:

The Buffs were a notable regiment of the British Army, the Third Foot, descended from a regiment raised for Dutch service in 1572, and the London Trainbands, all of which had buff coloured facings to their uniforms. The 3rd Foot had become popularly known as ‘The Buffs’ by 1702, and this became part of their official name by 1751.

The phrase originated in the Peninsular War, and is attributed to the Colonel of the Buffs. During an engagement, the Buffs, as senior Regiment were positioned on the right flank in an advance against the French. The enthusiatic Buffs moved rapidly and got well ahead of the general line of advance, whereupon the Colonel is reputed to have shouted:

‘Steady the Buffs, give the Slashers a chance!’

The ‘Slashers’ was a nickname accorded to the 28th Foot (2nd Battalion, the Gloucestershire Regiment), the Regiment to the left of the Buffs in the advance line, a name that they are said to have earned when cutting their way out of trouble at the Battle of White Plains in 1777. They share the battle honours Albuhera, Vittoria, Pyrenees and others in the Peninsula with the Buffs, the Berkshires and the Northamptonshires so they were often in action together
Readers' note to 'His Brother's Keeper, The Kipling Society website


So, at face value, it's a good companion to 'Look to your front', making that point that you youself are not alone on life's battlefield if its feeling like battlefield.
I knew that phrase because my Dad (ex British and then Indian Army, World War II veteran) used ot use i sometimes and then sort-of giggle. So I imagine there was some Army humour in there. But I never did think to ask him, once I was old enough to have it explained however rude, what the joke was.

~~~~~~
"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.

(This post was edited by noWizardme on 2:13pm)

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