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elentari3018
Nargothrond
2:02am
Post #1 of 6
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The concept of utmost despair for our characters
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Suddenly, despite his escape from the Lord of the Nazgûl, Frodo is overcome by despair.
“Frodo stirred. And suddenly his heart went out to Faramir. ‘The storm has burst at last,’ he thought. ‘This great array of spears and swords is going to Osgiliath. Will Faramir get across in time? He guessed it, but did he know the hour? And who can now hold the fords when the King of the Nine Riders is come? And other armies will come. I am too late. All is lost. I tarried on the way. All is lost. Even if my errand is performed, no one will ever know. There will be no one I can tell. It will be in vain.’ Overcome with weakness he wept. And still the host of Morgul crossed the bridge.” How many times do we see our characters in the utmost despair but still going on? I think i thought of this prompt to help me with the "lost time" prompt but i just want to list so many times of despair there are but our heroes keep going:
1) Aragorn when he felt despair at Boromir's passing
2) Pippin when he thought that Frodo had failed at the Black gate
3) Faramir felt a lot of despair when he had to try to overtake Osgiliath and the Causeway Forts at his father's bidding- what does he draw on to move on?
4) here for Frodo when he sees this vast army come out from MInas Morgul but he is no where close to Orodruin where he has to help with the destruction of the Ring but may be too late. (as mentioned in above quote)
5) When Sam thinks Frodo is dead, how can he move on without his master?
6) Gimli at the paths of the dead?
I love this topic of despair and how our characters pull within themselves, master themselves to move on... what other examples can you find? And how do our characters come out from despair? Where do they each draw their strength from to turn around feeling at their lowest?
I think i saw a thread talk about Aragorn and failure and it's somewhat related but we can also talk about how each character turns the corner and what makes them keep going. LotR is such a tale of resiliency and strength so how they draw their power to keep going is a great topic to talk about.
"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
"He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK
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Lissuin
Doriath
12:53pm
Post #3 of 6
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It's such a huge part of this tale, as you say,
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and was an inspiration to me to persevere with large and small problems more than once in life since I first read LOTR in my late teens.
If it was a quote from Tolkien or someone else contributing here, I don't remember, but because I've never been a soldier myself I'll take this thought from more experienced folk: Soldiers may enlist and join a cause because they are inspired to be a part of something important on a grand scale; they can then keep pressing forward because of their comrades on a personal level.
It goes along with Meneldor's comment, "Fight on, and do not despair. But if you do despair, then, fight on in despair." I imagine that many times a life or death situation in battle would seem overwhelming, but you cannot give up if others you care about are standing next to you and depending on you to do your part. Tolkien gives his characters many opportunities to despair and give up. They keep on with their tasks whether the people who depend on them are within reach or will never know that they kept on with the task. Someone is depending on them, and that is enough.
During his council, Elrond tries to inspire while preparing them for the difficulties ahead. "Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must,..."
Even Aragorn and Faramir must feel that they are too small for their tasks at times, let alone a hobbit.
Another example: Eowyn defending Theoden from the Witch King, and Merry defending her. Hopeless? Not together.
Great topic! Thanks for starting it.
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CuriousG
Gondolin
7:02pm
Post #4 of 6
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Another Elrondism of comfort in despair
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Since you bring him up, this popped into my mind, as it often does when I'm feeling less than optimistic. It doesn't really work in the literal sense: Boromir is killed on the banks of the Anduin, and no one of these "hidden" powers and realms come to help him, nor do any show up on the Pelennor Fields to save his city, father, and brother. (Rohan, of course, was not hidden or unknown to Boromir, so doesn't count.)
BUT! The fuller context is comforting in an existential way, which is what Elrond intended. I think it's always clear that the War of the Ring wasn't won by a single hero but by a collective effort of decent people united in purpose across M-earth to defeat Sauron and his enablers. So while the Elrond quote is the part that comes to mind, I'll repeat the fuller context below about Boromir lonely and in doubt (not quite despair) at the Council, and Elrond assuring him that he's not alone, not by a long shot.
‘Then be comforted,’ said Elrond. ‘For there are other powers and realms that you know not, and they are hidden from you. Anduin the Great flows past many shores, ere it comes to Argonath and the Gates of Gondor.’ (It might even deepen the context that Elrond chooses to reference Anduin, thus a reference to Ulmo's power, and Ulmo was always the most willing to help.)
Boromir looked at them doubtfully, but he bowed his head. ‘So be it,’ he said. ‘Then in Gondor we must trust to such weapons as we have. And at the least, while the Wise ones guard this Ring, we will fight on. Mayhap the Sword-that-was-Broken may still stem the tide – if the hand that wields it has inherited not an heirloom only, but the sinews of the Kings of Men.’
‘Who can tell?’ said Aragorn. ‘But we will put it to the test one day.’
‘May the day not be too long delayed,’ said Boromir. ‘For though I do not ask for aid, we need it. It would comfort us to know that others fought also with all the means that they have.’
‘Then be comforted,’ said Elrond. ‘For there are other powers and realms that you know not, and they are hidden from you. Anduin the Great flows past many shores, ere it comes to Argonath and the Gates of Gondor.’
‘Still it might be well for all,’ said Glóin the Dwarf, ‘if all these strengths were joined, and the powers of each were used in league.
You also brought up:
Another example: Eowyn defending Theoden from the Witch King, and Merry defending her. Hopeless? Not together. My own interpretation is that neither of them fought with any hope at all, but they relied on other values that were foundational in their character: Eowyn was brave and devoted to Theoden, and Merry couldn't ignite his courage at all, even unable to rally in loyalty to Theoden, until Eowyn's defiance and courage inspired him and overcame his fear. I think they were both willing to risk death and just did what they could, compelled to do the right thing rather than turn away.
And some of the best writing ever in LOTR:
Eowyn:
Her eyes grey as the sea were hard and fell, and yet tears were on her cheek. A sword was in her hand, and she raised her shield against the horror of her enemy’s eyes.
...Suddenly the great beast beat its hideous wings, and the wind of them was foul. Again it leaped into the air, and then swiftly fell down upon Éowyn, shrieking, striking with beak and claw. Still she did not blench: maiden of the Rohirrim, child of kings, slender but as a steel-blade, fair yet terrible. A swift stroke she dealt, skilled and deadly.
Merry:
Éowyn it was, and Dernhelm also. For into Merry’s mind flashed the memory of the face that he saw at the riding from Dunharrow: the face of one that goes seeking death, having no hope. Pity filled his heart and great wonder, and suddenly the slow-kindled courage of his race awoke. He clenched his hand. She should not die, so fair, so desperate! At least she should not die alone, unaided.
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CuriousG
Gondolin
7:52pm
Post #5 of 6
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And Elentari is back to remind us how it's *really* done.
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What a great and timely topic, especially for anyone not living off the grid in a cave with noise-cancelling earplugs. 
Your examples are all great. I wanted to add Gandalf's death, especially because on my 1st read, I thought he was really dead and gone from the story, and I was as lost as Frodo was in trying to figure out how *anything* could continue. Would they just return to Bag End and wait for the inevitable invasion by Sauron's enemies and death and slaughter and devastation? I had no idea. Plus I liked Gandalf and missed him!
Mapping it out, it's quite a journey, but no one said death, loss, and despair went away in a heartbeat. As I dug out the relevant passages to put below, I surprised myself at how comforting it is when taken together. There's a sense of resolution by the end, and I think that resolution restores hope, so the journey is worth it. There's more than one quest going on in LOTR:
The loss in Moria: [Gandalf] staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss. ‘Fly, you fools!’ he cried, and was gone. Confusion and grief while escaping: They stumbled wildly up the great stairs beyond the door, Aragorn leading, Boromir at the rear. At the top was a wide echoing passage. Along this they fled. Frodo heard Sam at his side weeping, and then he found that he himself was weeping as he ran. Anger: ( this was all long before Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's 5 stages of grief in 1969) Aragorn smote to the ground the captain that stood in his path, and the rest fled in terror of his wrath. Grief takes over once they reach safety outside: Grief at last wholly overcame them, and they wept long: some standing and silent, some cast upon the ground. Denial/forgetting: Legolas to Galadriel and Celeborn: ‘At first we were weary and danger was too close behind; and afterwards we almost forgot our grief for a time, as we walked in gladness on the fair paths of Lórien.’
‘Yet our grief is great and our loss cannot be mended,’ said Frodo. ‘Gandalf was our guide, and he led us through Moria; and when our escape seemed beyond hope he saved us, and he fell.’
A strong leader resurrects and asserts hope amid despair: Galadriel: 'for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat. 'I it was who first summoned the White Council. And if my designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the Grey, and then mayhap things would have gone otherwise. But even now there is hope left.'
They take care of their basic needs and allow themselves to wind down in Lorien:'The air was cool and soft, as if it were early spring, yet they felt about them the deep and thoughtful quiet of winter. It seemed to them that they did little but eat and drink and rest, and walk among the trees; and it was enough. Art therapy in Lorien:'It was Frodo who first put something of his sorrow into halting words. He was seldom moved to make song or rhyme; even in Rivendell he had listened and had not sung himself, though his memory was stored with many things that others had made before him. But now as he sat beside the fountain in Lórien and heard about him the voices of the Elves, his thought took shape in a song that seemed fair to him;
Paying tribute to their memory by growing and learning something: [Frodo and Sam capture Gollum in Emyn Muil]: It seemed to Frodo then that he heard, quite plainly but far off, voices out of the past: What a pity Bilbo did not stab the vile creature, when he had a chance!
Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need. ...‘Very well,’ he answered aloud, lowering his sword. ‘But still I am afraid. And yet, as you see, I will not touch the creature. For now that I see him, I do pity him.’
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CuriousG
Gondolin
8:17pm
Post #6 of 6
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Faramir helps Frodo recuperate from despair not once but twice
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There's more than one way to carry on against despair in M-earth. Sometimes it's via inner resources, sometimes it's being fortified by a friend and ally:
The Faramir-Frodo exchanges give us insight into both people in some moving passages. For people who think there's not much depth to either, well, they're not paying attention. Faramir is a bit of a stand-in for Gandalf/Gildor/Aragorn/Glorfindel/Elrond/Galadriel in buttressing our plucky but vulnerable Ring-bearer, which puts him in good company.
Their first encounter is when Faramir interrogates Frodo as a spy in Ithilien:
Frodo: 'And now your tale fills me with dread. For if Boromir was then in peril and was slain, I must fear that all my companions perished too. And they were my kindred and my friends.
‘Will you not put aside your doubt of me and let me go? I am weary, and full of grief, and afraid. But I have a deed to do, or to attempt, before I too am slain. And the more need of haste, if we two halflings are all that remain of our fellowship.
‘Go back, Faramir, valiant Captain of Gondor, and defend your city while you may, and let me go where my doom takes me.’
‘For me there is no comfort in our speech together,’ said Faramir; ‘but you surely draw from it more dread than need be. Unless the people of Lórien themselves came to him, who arrayed Boromir as for a funeral? Not Orcs or servants of the Nameless. Some of your Company, I guess, live still.
‘But whatever befell on the North March, you, Frodo, I doubt no longer. If hard days have made me any judge of Men’s words and faces, then I may make a guess at Halflings! Though,’ and now he smiled, ‘there is something strange about you, Frodo, an Elvish air, maybe.
The second is at Henneth Annun, when Faramir nobly defies the bewitchment of the Ring after a lot more (wearying) talk and probing with Frodo and Sam. Frodo just plain collapses.
Frodo had felt himself trembling as the first shock of fear passed. Now a great weariness came down on him like a cloud. He could dissemble and resist no longer.
‘I was going to find a way into Mordor,’ he said faintly. ‘I was going to Gorgoroth. I must find the Mountain of Fire and cast the thing into the gulf of Doom. Gandalf said so. I do not think I shall ever get there.’
Faramir stared at him for a moment in grave astonishment. Then suddenly he caught him as he swayed, and lifting him gently, carried him to the bed and laid him there, and covered him warmly. At once he fell into a deep sleep.
...Sam hesitated for a moment, then bowing very low: ‘Good night, Captain, my lord,’ he said. ‘You took the chance, sir.’
‘Did I so?’ said Faramir.
‘Yes sir, and showed your quality: the very highest.’
...
‘Maybe,’ said Faramir. ‘Maybe you discern from far away the air of Númenor. Good night!’
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