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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Dec 5 2014, 12:50pm
Post #1 of 32
(4925 views)
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MINE EYES HAVE SEEN THE HOBBIT (SPOILERS)
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If you want the quick opinion of my review, scroll to the bottom and look at the rating.
So, I saw the Battle of Five Armies. I arrived at a small theater in Beverly Hills, where I sat down with a friend, my heart pounding with anticipation. I could remember back to when I was a thirteen year old seeing the first film. Now I’m twenty six. That’s half my life, I’ve loved and lived in Middle Earth.
The Lord of the Rings is one of the top three greatest film achievements in cinema (the other two being Starwars and The Godfather). It deserved every Oscar it got, and a whole lot more that it didn’t get. These films beautifully showcase Peter Jackson’s genius, and ensure his entitlement to be included on any list of the greatest directors of all time. If you disagree with that statement, then you probably aren’t a big fantasy fan. But the beauty of Jackson’s films are they’re not just for geeks. They’re for anyone of any age. They have a singular beauty and after you watch them, the joy of that overwhelming experience remains with you. The longing to return to Middle Earth can be unbearable.
As a kid, I watched these movies more than fourteen times in the theater. So I’ve long been invested in seeing how The Hobbit would be done. Since I work in film, I understand why Peter Jackson made the choice to make The Hobbit into three films. The Hobbit is ultimately an accumulation of episodes. For each episode to be showcased properly, it needs time. You can’t just zip through the enchanted forest with it’s spiders and elves, or skip over Bilbo’s riddle in the dark with Gollum. These scenes are important.
It also made sense that we would see characters who were only previously mentioned merely by name. I WANTED to see Radagast. The dude is Gandalf’s cousin! Who wouldn’t want to see a wizard besides Gandalf and Saruman? I also WANTED to see Azog the Defiler. He sounded like an interesting orc. I wanted to see Bolg. The way Tolkien wrote about Bolg, when Gandalf disrupts the fray between men, dwarves and elves to warn everyone to Bolg’s presence, I was imagining this frightening badass. The orcs in LOTR were for the most part, one dimensional. The boss orcs were frightening not so much for their own strength, but because they were extensions of Sauron’s evil will. Bolg and Azog seemed unique, because they were the ones calling the shots. They weren’t your typical easily dispatched stupid orc. Every choice I read about Jackson making, I thought made sense in the big picture. Particularly, since I had read the appendices and hoped they would in some sense show up in the films. I was delighted to know the White Council, and Gandalf’s adventures in Dol Guldur were going to be there.
When 2012 came around, my anticipation for the film reached an all time high. As a kid, I would watch the LOTR to escape from the messy custody battles going on between my divorced parents. As an adult, I was having a very tough 2012 and I was looking forward to escaping into Peter Jackson (and Tolkien’s) world once again. I NEEDED this. I longed for this.
Now that I’ve seen the last Hobbit movie, I now have the big picture of everything Peter Jackson was trying to do. This has at least ensured that on December 15th, I will be headed to an IMAX theater to watch all three Hobbit movies simultaneously. Each of these movies (unlike Lord of the Rings) cannot be enjoyed on their own. They are each part of a bigger story. Every ending has seemed jarring. When AUJ ended, I was sitting there thinking, “THAT’s where they wanted to end it?” It had seemed to me, that it would have been far better for the film to end with the dwarves on their way into Laketown. As it turns out, that was how Jackson had planned on ending AUJ, before he made the decision to turn the story into three movies.
I found the ending to DOS more bearable, because I’m a fan of the old movie serials which have cliffhangers. I thought Smaug was the best looking animated dragon EVER. I do wish the dragon had two arms if for no other reason, then that he would match the dragon drawing in the map in LOTR, but that’s alright. I can overlook that, because Smaug was so brilliant on screen and the reason I saw that movie four times in the theater. I was not a fan of Bard’s portrayal as a single dad as opposed to Tolkien’s description of a harsh voiced, grim leader of men who always see the dark underlining of rain clouds on a sunny day. I suppose it’s because I identify with Bard. I am the one likely to cry a warning about poisoned fish, whether others like it or not. I had felt like Bard was lessened, by giving his character an unnecessary backstory, that Tolkien didn’t intend for him. I had also despised the usage of Azog in the first two Hobbit movies, and it was going to take a lot for me to change my mind.
With this in mind, I went with a friend to an exclusive Hobbit screening. I felt special. It was in 3 D. I watched the film with my own special “Desolation of Smaug” 3d glasses, that I won at the Grauman Chinese Theater at the DOS midnight screening last year. These glasses are neat. I was a little embarrassed when I arrived at this screening, because I was wearing my Hobbit t shirt that I gotten at an Unexpected Journey screening, the year before, and no one else was dressed up for the event. These were just normal people in the industry who were coming to see a movie, by a director they respected.
I went to my seat, sat down and cleared my head. I took out my candybars from New Zealand, shared half of them with my friend and witnessed the last Tolkien movie that may ever be produced by Peter Jackson. And as I saw this movie I thought, “Is this the movie I was hoping for? Is this the film that will open my eyes and make me see the earlier films flaws in a different light? Will Jackson silence the naysayers, and reveal that his earlier moves were simply brilliant set up for a spectacular payoff?”
The answer is mixed.
I saw the burning of Laketown. I saw the fight between the White Council and Sauron. I saw Smaug give a cry of pain at the climax of a thrilling sequence, and plummet lifeless into the lake destroying a sneaky minor villain in the process. I saw Galadriel show herself to be the most powerful person in Middle Earth not named Sauron. I didn’t understand why she was considered thus before. Now I do. The whole White Council scene is easily one of the three best scenes in the film. Saruman shows why he is the leader of the White Council and not Gandalf. He bats about the Nazgul in a sequence that reminded me of Neo knocking back the many Agents Smiths in Matrix Reloaded. Speaking of Agent Smith, we see Elrond fight for the first time since A Fellowship of the Ring in 2001. These people are tough. They don’t need an army to back them up when they take on the Necromancer. When Sauron shows his face, the moment is spectacular. Especially when Galadriel rises in full power, more frightening than when she freaks out Frodo in Fellowship, and screams, “Back, servant of Melkor!” It’s an amazing moment. Their battle is more intense than Gandalf vs Sauron. It is a supreme clash of wills, that serves to set up an even greater scene. Especially when Saruman says, “Leave Sauron to ME.”
But then that scene never comes. And slowly I see the movie unravel.
The thrush does not tell Bard of the weakness in Smaug’s armor, despite the setup over the two previous films. We do not even see the thrush. That bugs me. But not nearly as much as when Smaug dropped down to the ground and started to give a lengthy monologue to Bard while Bard fits the arrow to his bow. “Does he ever shut up?” I wondered. In DOS, there had been too many odd manufactured moments where Smaug would get into an unnecessary conversation with someone, that he simply should have been trying to kill. Smaug’s chase with the dwarves had made him seem incompetent. Now instead of burning Laketown, he’s talking to Bard. Maybe the dragon is just lonely. That’s why he’s always talking instead of actually doing stuff.
I cringed during this scene, but not because of Smaug. I cringed because Bard needed to rest the Black Arrow on his son’s shoulder in order to aim it at Smaug. People in the audience were laughing their head off, at the oddness of this choice. The arrow is clearly big enough to take the kid’s head off. The kid looks scared. Bard seems like the worst father ever. But still, despite this goofy moment, for the most part the dragon scene is spectacular. Smaug is animated wonderfully. Jackson more than succeeded in the construction of a believable dragon whose actions help decide the fate of Middle earth.
This film is mostly filler. The minor dwarves have less time here than even the previous films. Having run out of appendices to use, Jackson resorts not only to fan fiction, but to borrowing characters from other works. Such as the sandworms from Dune. The romance with Kili and Tauriel also moves front and center with the grudge match between Thorin and Azog. Plot threads which have been set up in the first two movies are largely abandoned as the film moves towards its end. Jackson literally stops focusing on the Battle of the Five Armies, and resolves it offscreen, so he can focus on Thorin and Azog fighting over an icy lake. Everything else plays second fiddle to these two fan fiction plot points.
I was distressed by items Jackson doesn’t address or abandons, such as:
1. We never find out what happens to the Arkenstone or the gold.
2. We don’t discover the fate of Erebor.
3. The elf king doesn’t transform into a kinder soul like in the book. Instead, he stays a jerk throughout the entire movie.
4. We don’t find out what happens to Bard and his family.
5. We don’t see the battle properly resolve ON SCREEN.
6. They show us creatures like the war worms, and then no one actually fights the worms, nor do we see them again.
I was also distressed by characters being uncharacteristically stupid. Bilbo is NOT knocked out early on in the battle. He is present for much of it. So whenever he takes off his ring and is menaced by orcs, he is pretty much automatically stupid, just like he was stupid in the last movie for taking off his ring when confronted by Smaug. These are the moments when you STAY INVISIBLE! When you think about it, Bilbo could have saved everybody a lot of trouble by sneaking up on Azog with the ring on and stabbing him. The White Council was also stupid for not pursuing Sauron any further once he is beaten.
There are too many instances (5?), where an evil orc is about to stab some good guy, and a different good guy stops the evil orc at the last moment. Too many instances of hokey dialogue, building up to a silly punchline (Ex: “These bats were bred for one purpose.” “For what?” “For war.”)
The actors really try with their parts, especially Richard Armitage, but the film feels hollow at the end.
Here were the parts I felt were strong.
1. The white Council vs Sauron
2. The burning of Laketown with the exception of Smaug’s silly speech and that black arrow on the shoulder moment.
3. The portrayal of Dain.
4. A quiet moment with Gandalf and Bilbo (Martin Freeman) at the end of the film, when Gandalf is trying to light his pipe.
The ending is too abrupt when it happens, and I left the theater feeling dazed and unfulfilled. When I think of what qualified as a three star movie, I think of something like “Guardians of the Galaxy”. This film is not as good as that. So I give it two and a half stars.
(This post was edited by CaptainObvious on Dec 5 2014, 12:50pm)
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 5 2014, 1:29pm
Post #2 of 32
(3378 views)
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"as when Smaug dropped down to the ground and started to give a lengthy monologue to Bard while Bard fits the arrow to his bow. “Does he ever shut up?” I wondered. In DOS, there had been too many odd manufactured moments where Smaug would get into an unnecessary conversation with someone, that he simply should have been trying to kill. Smaug’s chase with the dwarves had made him seem incompetent. Now instead of burning Laketown, he’s talking to Bard. "
The Dragon lives another life than we do.. Like the Lord-Elf-King a 100 years is just a blink of the eye... perhaps even 1.000 years is.
So why kill some one instantly if you can first tell things to him about the end that will come anyway..
I have not seen the movie yet, and still I do read spoilers like this, as that does not matter. Every time I see a Preview Clip I see that was is written is not nearly as good as what the clips show me.
This Dragon has all the time to talk.. Burn the Town further down and return to the Dwarfs and finish them off..
That the scale missing was shown in DOS was not to show us where he was weak, but THAT he could be harmed. I think that was clever and I am glad it is NOT told to Bard, as (although he expected it) it makes it less of an easy kill.
Had he known it would have taken less time to aim and shoot the arrow there..
So .. glad with that fact.
I think I will also dissapoint me that the scene with Sauron does not last that long, esp. as it would not have mattered if it had been a 150 or 175 minute movie. But alas... it is also good to leave some things to the imagination (although It would have been fun to know how Sauron was able to escape).
(This post was edited by mirkwoodwanderer on Dec 5 2014, 1:31pm)
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 5 2014, 2:11pm
Post #3 of 32
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I can tell you put a lot into your thoughts and feelings and I appreciate your sharing ting.
I originally was going to stay off the boards and internet to avoid spoilers but decided not to. I'm glad I made the choice I did. My expectations are different now and I know what the deal is going in so I won't be as disappointed I don't think as I would be had I seen it cold without any knowledge. I know that's not true for some but for me I think it was a good choice.
So thanks for your thoughts. I think they make sense on many levels. Interesting that you say that these should be viewed together as one work. My first viewing will be the Hobbit Marathon on the 15th so it will be interesting to see how they fit together.
My biggest disappointment is the lack of Beorn, Radagast and the resolution of Erebor/funeral for Thorin and, as you said, the Arkenstone. I am sure those things will be in the EE one day and I look forward to watching that..
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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adt100
Rohan
Dec 5 2014, 2:35pm
Post #4 of 32
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I scrolled to the bottom avoid spoilers....
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Not sure I agree with your scoring of Guardians of the Galaxy though, I gave that a good 4/5, though it was awesome!
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DjU
Lorien
Dec 5 2014, 3:04pm
Post #5 of 32
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The thrush does not tell Bard of the weakness in Smaug’s armor, despite the setup over the two previous films. We do not even see the thrush.
Except, the Thrush telling Bard anything has never been setup over the previous two films. They even explicitly transferred the knowledge of a weakness in Smaug’s armor to be a story that the men of the lake already know, In DoS you even hear Bain tell the story and then later Bilbo sees the missing scale and remarks that the tale is true.
Bard & Bain already know that there is a potential weakness and this has already been set up, there was no set up with the Thrush.
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MatthewJer18
Rohan
Dec 5 2014, 3:12pm
Post #6 of 32
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Yeah, I think the inclusion of the thrush was only ever supposed to be a nice nod to the book.
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I can't speak about what he does in BotFA, but in regards to Bilbo removing the ring in front of Smaug, doesn't the film heavily imply that he's influenced by Smaug saying "precious"? He's clearly not in the right state of mind when he does it.
(This post was edited by MatthewJer18 on Dec 5 2014, 3:14pm)
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nusilver
Rohan
Dec 5 2014, 3:17pm
Post #7 of 32
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I'm glad you enjoyed The Hobbit overall as a single film spread across 9 hours. I'm also not sure why some people were attacking you yesterday about the quality of your reviews, but your quality is the very finest here. Have a great weekend... I see the film on Monday and I CANNOT wait.
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TiberiusOgden
Bree
Dec 5 2014, 4:11pm
Post #8 of 32
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Everything about Galadriel ...
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How will Galadriel fight? What kind of magic she used? ...
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 5 2014, 5:38pm
Post #9 of 32
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let's hope she uses the powers of her ring
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so she will scream her opponents into the corner
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Bard'sBlackArrow
Lorien
Dec 5 2014, 7:38pm
Post #10 of 32
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I had my concerns before reading this, but I am very much looking forward to watching Saruman kick butt.
Everything else we'll see, but I cringed a lot while reading your excellent post.
... on the other side of tomorrow...
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Moahunter
Rohan
Dec 5 2014, 8:49pm
Post #11 of 32
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" I will be headed to an IMAX theater to watch all three Hobbit movies simultaneously."
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Wow!!!
I know IMAX screens are big but can they accommodate 3 films at the same time?
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 5 2014, 9:36pm
Post #13 of 32
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Our Marathon is also in IMAX. Can't wait! It's a little over a week away!
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Dec 5 2014, 9:39pm
Post #14 of 32
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Thanks for the kind words, everyone.
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I believe the EE is the proper version we should all be looking out for. Go ahead and see the new movie, I hope you all enjoy yourselves. Just know that the full experience is yet to come.
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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Dec 5 2014, 10:07pm
Post #15 of 32
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So I give Guardians 3/4, and the new Hobbit 2 1/2 out of 4. Hopefully 'll give a higher rating to the EE. Don't get me wrong, the movie is entertaining. But I didn't get the emotional whammo I was hoping for. Then again, it may be different for someone else. I'll have better perspective when I see the films back to back to back on the 15th.
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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Dec 5 2014, 10:14pm
Post #16 of 32
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Sure the clips showing Smaug attacking everything are great. And watching the scene was fun, but Smaug's monologue derails some of the momentum imo.
You seem to think, I don't know why Peter Jackson showed the missing scale in DOS. Yes, I KNOW why. Bilbo was supposed to see that missing scale. It was in the book. But the thrush was also supposed to hear Bilbo mention the missing scale, and tell Bard (I'm hoping this still happens in the EE). If everyone in the world can see Smaug's weakness, it takes away some of the greatness of Bard's feat.
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adt100
Rohan
Dec 5 2014, 10:26pm
Post #17 of 32
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Ah right sorry, assumed out of 5!
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Faleel
Rohan
Dec 5 2014, 11:44pm
Post #18 of 32
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It may have been an Homage to Glaurung in the Children of Hurin.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 6 2014, 12:17am
Post #19 of 32
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Yeah. It's teetering on being unimpressive.
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"So this Dragon is burning the town, and he's got this almost entirely impenetrable skin, and then Bard has just a single arrow, one shot, and he manages to shoot through the flames and smoke and hit the one spot where Smaug was missing a scale and kill him saving the whole populace."
"Well that's not such a big deal. Anyone could do that. Did, by any chance, a bird tell him about the missing scale?"
"Erm no, I don't believe so."
"Then it's nothing to write home about"
I'm very much put in mind of a certain scene from "Guards,Guards!"
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shadowdog
Rohan
Dec 6 2014, 1:02am
Post #20 of 32
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People are howling about the arrow hitting the "spot" when that is how Tolkien had the dragon killed.
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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Dec 6 2014, 1:33am
Post #21 of 32
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You have some serious reading comprehension problems.
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
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Dec 6 2014, 1:50am
Post #22 of 32
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But they already dealt with that in DOS.
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It's Bain who tells first about the missing scale, a legend/tale that Bard obviously knows well. What Bilbo sees later only confirms it. But since the story has been passed down through his house along with the remaining Black Arrow, MovieBard has never needed anyone to tell him about the missing scale. He just needed a clear view and a good shot of it.
At least Bard didn't have to stand on one leg to pull off the shot. 
Silverlode
Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!
"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dûm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 6 2014, 1:53am
Post #23 of 32
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Perhaps the joke just wasn't a million to one shot.
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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Dec 6 2014, 2:01am
Post #24 of 32
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In both The Lord of The Rings and The Hobbit, we are shown repeatedly how the little things can often decide the fate of many. Whether it is a tiny gold ring, or the actions of a little Hobbit, or the gentle whisper of an insignificant looking thrush, that which is often unimportant to the eyes of a normal onlooker is often the MOST important.
There's a beauty to a mighty dragon being brought down by the actions of a tiny bird. Just like there is a beauty in a powerful Dark Lord's evil work becoming undone thanks to a group of brave Hobbits. But these little nuances are lost in the Hobbit movie trilogy, because Jackson has gone for bombast and noise at the expense of what really matters.
(This post was edited by CaptainObvious on Dec 6 2014, 2:08am)
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
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Dec 6 2014, 2:05am
Post #25 of 32
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I'm not saying one can't wish it otherwise, just pointing out that the omission wasn't left as a plot hole. 
Silverlode
Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!
"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dûm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."
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