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FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rohan
Oct 29 2013, 6:35pm
Views: 266
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Another one of my all-time favourite scenes from The Hobbit (I think we all know why)
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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Gandalf and Bilbo debate Bilbo's involvement the Quest.
Gandalf is persuasive, but Bilbo is quite resistant. How much do you think this conversation influenced Bilbo's choice to follow the Company? Was it the primary influence or do you see something else as stronger?
I think this was a very influential conversation as he is trying to convince Bilbo to “come out of his shell” and see what the ‘real’ world is like – where he can witness with his own eyes what the world beyond his home is like (and can perhaps tell tales of his own about it).
This is one of my favourite scenes as we get a “sneak peek” [as it were] of what Bilbo was like as a child, pottering around the woods in search of elves and coming home late at night trailing mud into the carpets. And there was Bilbo complaining about the dwarves trodding mud into his carpet *tuts*!
What do you think of Gandalf's choice not to give the answer "yes" - the answer that would have served his own immediate and weighty need?
I think he says “no” because he wants to tell him the truth (since wizards never seem to lie), and let Bilbo make up his own mind on accompanying the dwarves or not.
A key scene: Balin and Thorin in the hall. It is a very private, intimate exchange, and they appear to switch roles back-and-forth as counselor and counselled, strong and vulnerable, in this scene.
Does it seem to finally settle the shadow of conflict between Balin and Thorin at the table earlier, as to whether Balin can accept the Quest and stand by Thorin once and for all? Or do you think Balin still has doubts?
I think Balin and Thorin come to some agreement in this scene, but I do believe Balin is still doubtful (as he seems to be older [and wiser] than the others) because he has witnessed the dragon taking Erebor, seen its wrath, and obviously knows this may be a Quest they may not be able to return from. But, the fact is he trusts Thorin and understands his needs of returning to his home, and I find it sweet that he says he'll “see it done”
Is this a unique and trusting relationship between Thorin and Balin, or is this a window into the soul of Dwarven culture: intense loyalty and private pain?
I find their discussion quite intriguing (I keep dreaming that I am going to go after Bilbo and pause as I hear Thorin and Balin talking, and I listen in on them  ) since they never seem to voice their own private problems aloud. It seems their pride comes before everything/everyone else.
I think a good example of this is in the prologue when we see Thrór in his “Gold Room (shall it put it that way?)”. The camera pans to reveal that Thorin is witnessing this, and he shrinks back into the shadows – is this a sign that even though he knows what's going on, he does not want to confront his grandfather?
Finally, the magnificent scene in which Thorin leads the Company in song.
Firstly, what did you think of the choice of acapella for this rendition?
I particularly loved the humming. It seemed to set the sinister, dark mood for me. I felt like I was under some spell. I actually feel sorry for Thorin as it is a song concerning the day Smaug took Erebor and his longing to go back and reclaim his mountain, and it is filled with so much sorrow yet was beautifully sang.
As a side note~ I must say Richard Armitage's voice is amazing! 
Thorin's song has impacted all the Dwarves in the room; Dwarves moved around, their eyes and their postures told stories. What patterns can you see in the above reactions?
- For example, with the brothers Ori, Nori and Dori?
- What do Balin's actions say about how he is feeling about the Quest?
- Bifur rising first. Does this change your perceptions of him from earlier in the film?
- What does Thorin himself tell you with his movements?
- Dwalin's reaction is complex and multilayered. What's happening here?
- Our chipper class clown, Bofur: quite a different view here isn't it?
- Can you tell who was at the Mountain the day Smaug came from their reactions? Or no?
- The net reaction to Thorin's singing - what do you see?
I was mesmerised by Thorin, myself – who wasn't? 
Well... quite a lot of analysing here
Dori seems a little surprised Ori is taking this quite seriously (I think perhaps Ori, like Bilbo, is very naïve but he has come to grips with what exactly they're all in for quickly) and he's staring into the fire somewhat vacantly. Nori is heeding the words, I think, and trying to imagine what this Quest is going to be like.
Balin seems somewhat shaky, but is singing with Thorin nonetheless – a proof of his loyalty (being the first to rise and sing).
I like how Bifur is already staring into the fire, before they have even started singing – it may have been coincidental but I do find it touching. I really feel sorry for him.
I love the fact Thorin's the one who is always setting the example, and singing, and is the one who is resting his arm on the fireplace (I just love anything to do with fire). He's the “spotlight (as it were)”, the one we can all clearly see [for obvious reasons – I mean you wouldn't have a main character standing in the background, now would you? ]. He's looking into the fire, (perhaps painfully) recalling the incidents and pouring his emotions out into the song. I really like the way he turns, as if for support of his “friends”, as Balin has just joined in with the song.
And then we have that epic moment [enough said  ]: when they all rise and sing as one.
Dwalin beforehand had an unreadable face [still does] but the way he folds his arms clearly states that he is ready for action and is going to protect his leader.
I like how Bofur's voice, as he sings, becomes one of the main “vocals” and we can hear him clearly, yet he has not risen to his feet and is facing away from the fire and more towards the window. I'm thinking of the “we don't belong anywhere” scene here because even though he does not seem to understand what a home really is, he understands the truth behind the words.
I think Balin, Dwalin and Thorin are the three main ones (Balin and Thorin we know witnessed the Mountain taken by Smaug) but Dwalin’s sad expression seems to tell me that he perhaps recalls the events too.
I love the overall reaction as, when they rise, they seem to move towards the fire, and then the camera moves to the outdoors where the smoke hovers up into the night sky, as if trying to bring the events in the first chapter of the novel to life [as Silwen_Peredhil stated above ].
Gandalf later says he did not doubt Bilbo joining. Yet as the Dwarves sing, do you think Gandalf is feeling at all confident?
I think this song gave him the time (in perhaps a long while) to think over some of the things that are in his mind. I believe he's just trying to think over the journey, once they leave Bag-End [with or without Bilbo]. Poor Gandalf – he has a lot on his mind.
Touching again on influences on Bilbo: how much do you think the song had upon him? In relation to Gandalf's words earlier - more influence or less?
I believe he was thinking over Gandalf’s words when they started singing, which perhaps encouraged him even more to go with them.
These were great questions, Brethil. I really enjoyed answering them!
Thanks for posting.
 ....."Loyalty, Honor,
......A Willing Heart.
I can ask no more than that."
...... ~ Thorin Oakenshield
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Time
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CHOWS Chapter: Bilbo's Choice
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Brethil
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Oct 25 2013, 4:58pm
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"The Misty Mountains Cold": a turning point?
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Brethil
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Oct 25 2013, 5:20pm
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Heh, heh- yes, another favourite moment indeed!
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elaen32
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Oct 25 2013, 6:49pm
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Politics behind the emotion
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Brethil
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Oct 26 2013, 12:10am
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Since you asked...
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Dame Ioreth
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Oct 25 2013, 9:23pm
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Congrats on making it to Rivendell!
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Kim
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Oct 25 2013, 11:36pm
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Congrats on your 100th post!!!!
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Brethil
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Oct 26 2013, 12:22am
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Wonderful scenes, all three of them. The song, in particular, ranks as one of my favorite Middle-earth moments.
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Macfeast
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Oct 26 2013, 12:28am
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Your wonderful avatar is almost back in season Macfeast!
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Brethil
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Oct 26 2013, 1:03am
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Jingle beards, jingle beards, jingle all the way! //
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Macfeast
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Oct 26 2013, 1:29am
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This *needs* to be a Holiday song!!!! //
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Brethil
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Oct 26 2013, 5:02pm
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Where Bilbo's choice really occurs
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Riven Delve
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Oct 26 2013, 12:09pm
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The Misty Mountains song is possibly my favourite moment in AUJ.
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Noria
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Oct 26 2013, 1:42pm
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The Dwarves and the song...
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Brethil
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Oct 26 2013, 5:01pm
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The sparks
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Nunilo
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Oct 31 2013, 11:28pm
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Nice take on the spark shot Nunilo!
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Brethil
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Nov 1 2013, 12:52am
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Well.....
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elaen32
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Oct 25 2013, 6:32pm
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Ok: to start with...
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Brethil
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Oct 26 2013, 12:01am
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One of my favorite sequences :-)
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Kim
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Oct 25 2013, 11:28pm
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Such a great scene - how did I know you'd love it???
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Brethil
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Oct 26 2013, 12:37am
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* Rubs hands* Now for Thorin (...oh and Balin too)
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Dame Ioreth
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Oct 25 2013, 11:32pm
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Wonderful post Dame Ioreth!
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Kim
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Oct 25 2013, 11:43pm
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Well, garsh....
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Dame Ioreth
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Oct 26 2013, 1:21am
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Again, I have to agree with you
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Kim
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Oct 26 2013, 2:05am
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I so agree with you Kim & Ioreth + spoilers+
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elaen32
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Oct 26 2013, 8:09am
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Not all who wander are lost...some OT is just fine!!! //
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Brethil
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Oct 26 2013, 5:03pm
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Thanks Brethil
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Noria
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Oct 25 2013, 11:55pm
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Speaking of Golf!
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Brethil
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Oct 26 2013, 12:49am
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My choice too (for best chapter, that is!)
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Riven Delve
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Oct 26 2013, 11:41am
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The Bullroarer: what a good catch R-D
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Brethil
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Oct 26 2013, 4:47pm
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Really beautiful moments!
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Silwen_Peredhil
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Oct 28 2013, 8:44pm
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Wow Silwen, what a wonderful post!
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Kim
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Oct 28 2013, 9:40pm
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Oh, thank you Kim!
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Silwen_Peredhil
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Oct 30 2013, 4:39pm
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Thanks to YOU Silwen!
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Brethil
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Oct 29 2013, 12:45am
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Thank you. :)
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Silwen_Peredhil
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Oct 30 2013, 4:51pm
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Yes, I see you in Rivendell!!!!
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Brethil
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Oct 30 2013, 8:27pm
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Another one of my all-time favourite scenes from The Hobbit (I think we all know why)
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FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
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Oct 29 2013, 6:35pm
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Great responses Morningstar!
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Brethil
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Oct 30 2013, 12:44am
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Aww, thank you, Brethil.
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FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
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Oct 30 2013, 9:46pm
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I agree.. and feel lucky to enjoy it all!
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Brethil
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Oct 31 2013, 12:27am
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Agree 100% with you there.
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FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
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Oct 31 2013, 5:54pm
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All I really have to add is ...
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DanielLB
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Oct 30 2013, 8:32pm
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Great summary Daniel...
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Brethil
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Oct 30 2013, 9:05pm
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