|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Avandel
Half-elven
Oct 18 2013, 7:05pm
Views: 1097
Shortcut
|
Door opens and Thorin Oakenshield turns his head.
I get excited every time I see the door opening. It’s as if I feel that this is the moment I’ve been waiting for since the dwarves arrived in Bag-End.
1) This is the first time since the prologue that we encounter this character. What are your impressions of him now?
Yo, here’s the LEADER, definitely! He’s aged, fought, and fought more, experienced, he’s become something epic and IS the King of Erebor, whether living on the road or exiled. It’s like some dark force (but not in a bad way, more like a thunderstorm) came in from the night and just dominates the room by his presence. Any innocence is gone replaced by the years of survival and fighting. Majestic!!!!! And oh, the voice.......
2) Do you like the fact that Thorin arrives late?
Yes, and he’s the only one who doesn’t ring – even the door banging sounds imperious (tho personally I think he is fed up at getting lost, having to get directions from perky hobbits, is tired and irate after his meeting with the other dwarves, and just kicks the door).
3) Why do you think the filmmakers decided, of all people, that Gandalf should open the door?
Because Gandalf knows who it is and is “working things” in that Thorin is both imperious, won’t be intimidated by Gandalf, and Thorin already is finding all this dubious. Gandalf is certainly laying on the good manners. Thorin is humoring Gandalf but he’s on edge, wouldn’t take much for Thorin to go the opposite direction and say “forget this.”
He says “Gandalf,” with a slight smile and walks in.
4) What do you think of his attitude towards Gandalf?
What I would expect between a meeting of equals, or that is how the no-nonsense Thorin views Gandalf – someone he respects but at the same time finds questionable, especially (probably) setting up a meeting at the home of a hobbit, and bringing on a hobbit burglar.
Exactly the expression I would expect given the circumstances – e.g. I’m humoring you with all this BS, Gandalf…….
”I thought you said this place would be easy to find. I lost my way. Twice. I would not have found it at all had it not been for that mark on the door.”
5) A little fun question: How do you think he managed to lose his way (twice) to Bag-End?
From the looks of the pastoral Hobbiton, with the cozy homes built into the rolling hills – and the fact that hobbits like it peaceful and haven’t built to encourage random folks wandering through – it’s probably really easy to lose your way in Hobbiton, with all the “random” winding lanes – especially in the dark. Probably little signage too, since this looks like a village – and the dwarves seem to favor order and use a lot of straight lines, they would probably never build a village like Hobbiton. Think Gandalf gave directions to Thorin, but he probably wandered up into the wrong lane, or ended up at the wrong hobbit-hole, and perhaps had to put up with some perky hobbit giving even more incomprehensible directions – in the dark, too. 6) What do you think of the composition and camera angle in this screencap?
”Mark? There's no mark on that door. It was painted a week ago!”
“There is a mark. I put it there myself.”
7) What do you think about Bilbo’s reaction to the mark on the door?
8) Did you notice the smile Thorin gives to Kíli during Bilbo’s flustered statement about there being no mark on his door? Do you think that this hints to the face that they are related?
I’ll answer 6,7, and 8 together – this is all great as the King, not in the best of moods has just walked in, Bilbo is fed up with all the wreckage and is about to go off about the “damage” to his door (which Thorin most likely would not be interested in, and worse, might get irate himself over something so “stupid” from what is a “peasant” to him really, and not even a dwarf at that), and there’s Gandalf in the middle pouring oil on the waters and tamping Bilbo down before he gets going. All perfectly done – and do think the smile Thorin gives Kili hints at a “special” relationship (as does the smile Thorin gives Kili later at the table) e.g. this is someone Thorin knows very well, and is particularly fond of.
”Bilbo Baggins allow me to introduce you to the leader of our company, Thorin Oakenshield.”
Thorin folds his arms and stands in front of Bilbo. “So, this is the hobbit.”
9) What do you think of Thorin’s first impressions of Bilbo and his “interrogation” (in comparison to Gandalf’s during the Good Morning scene)?
Think Thorin is already completely unenthused by the idea of someone from a different race joining DWARVES, and Thorin has little to no reason to like other races – besides elves, think he and his people have received little support in their years of wandering and rebuilding. Plus, he’s confronted with a sort of prissy Englishman hobbit wearing a nightshirt and suspenders. The scene shows Thorin sizing Bilbo up and cynical amusement – Bilbo’s appearance is just confirming what Thorin already thinks. To Thorin, after seeing Bilbo, think Bilbo can already be written off as of no consequence whatsoever.
10) Bonus Question here: “Axe or Sword, what’s your weapon of choice?”
”Well, I have some skills with conkers if you must know... though, I fail to see why that’s relevant...”
11) Do you think Bilbo’s reply was more to be funny but when he realises Thorin is being serious the joke becomes lost?
Don’t think Bilbo is being funny at all here, think he is fed up, finds the question offensive (a wee bit of testosterone between the two here), and is being cheeky, but it slowly sinks in that perhaps being cheeky isn’t the best idea with THIS well-armed, tough dwarf – Bilbo is standing up to Thorin but he’s nervous, by the end. Which visually I think Thorin takes in, and is dismissive of Bilbo "looks more like a grocer than a burglar......"
”Thought as much. He looks more like a grocer than a burglar.”
12) In the book, this line was said by Glóin. Do you like that they included this from the book and that they gave them to Thorin?
Memory of the book is hazy, don’t remember this from the book. But it fits in the movie giving it to Thorin and breaks the scene nicely so Thorin can turn and walk in – totally works here and suits the character.
I love the way Gandalf leans against the arch after Thorin has left the room.
13) What does Gandalf’s exasperated expression tell us about the situation?
Don’t think Gandalf looks exasperated, think he is relieved Thorin hasn’t lost his temper and will walk in and sit down – the first hurdle is over, especially after Thorin sees Bilbo for the first time – at least Gandalf’s plans are still working, so far.
14) What did you like most about the scene up to this point? The dialogue, the layout, the facial expressions? Or was there one moment in particular?
Think the arrival of Thorin is a pivotal moment, and it’s perfectly done – he walks in majestically, his clothes are striking (always strikes me when Thorin has his back turned the low light gleaming on the studding of the tunic, the mane of hair, the black vambraces, this broad-shouldered pelt) and then when we get a full frontal view there’s just this PRESENCE and this VOICE and these EYES full of intelligence and command; it’s as though Thorin is too big of a presence for the space to hold). And exasperated little Bilbo facing all this, not even comprehending it all, or who this is, just being a hobbit!
The dialogue and performances are just perfect. (OK, I’ve been known to hit the replay button on that scene, but that happens a lot with my AUJ Blu-ray…..)Thorin is sitting eating soup.
15) After the feast the other dwarves have had, would you say this is a "meagre meal" for Thorin to have?
No, think he is upset and tired, and probably doesn’t feel like eating much – plus there is bread and other stuff on the table if he wants it.
The lighting is in this scene is darker in comparison to the previous scene, which seems to me to symbolise the danger within this Quest that they have not even started yet.
16) Do you find the lighting quite effective for this scene?
Oh, yes, and kind of mirrors what I remember of the book – something about darkness for planning – can’t remember the exact lines.
This scene introduces Óin and Glóin’s character, and shows us that they are into prophecies.
When the dwarves stand up and argue, I think, shows that even though they are supposed to be a team, their personalities clash.
17) What are your thoughts on this?
It’s cool we see there is a closeness there, even if it is not spelled out. And think this shows dwarves being dwarves, rowdy, fierce, bickering among themselves – it’s fun, really!
I think that the part that mostly stands out to me is when Dwalin asks Thorin “Is Dain with us?” and he slowly lowers his soup spoon and replies slowly “They will not come. They say this Quest is ours and ours alone.” I found this quite a significant moment as everyone seems quite disappointed, especially Dwalin.
18) This scene has a lot of moments when we are shown characterisation. Some are through dialogue. Most are though facial expressions, and there are a lot of things that go unsaid. Are there any moments that stand out to you and why?
Dwalin expression perfect – someone who empathizes with Thorin but like Thorin is no fool, and they both know that the refusal is something that could happen, as opposed to the other dwarves who fuss more about it. Both Thorin and Dwalin seem to have “been around the block” more with this kind of thing as warriors who have dealt with allies, and refusals to be allies, as well.
19) The only character in this scene who does not know of the details about the Quest is Bilbo. Do you like how this is used in order to explain to the audience, both in the film and the book, the purpose of this meeting?
Like it very much, and think all these Bag End scenes flow beautifully.
20) How significant do you think the map is in this scene?
Very, in that we learn a little later that Bilbo has “books and maps” so in that sense think Bilbo is instantly intrigued by the map – think it’s the beginning of his awakening to the desire for adventure, even tho he doesn’t know it yet. Also lays a kind of visual framework for both the dwarves and the audience – and, it’s an old artifact of Erebor and therefore a symbol in its own right.
21) Whilst the dwarves are arguing, Bilbo is pleading for them all to calm down and Thorin quickly rises to his feet and says in Dwarvish “Silence!” and they all sit down, clearly showing that Thorin has authority over them all. Do you think he heard Bilbo or did he just decide the dwarves were going too far?
Think Thorin was paying no attention to Bilbo whatsoever, and Thorin being already stressed, just put his foot down, basically, but also “fed the fire” of the other dwarves.
22) How did you react the first time you saw Thorin’s speech?
Jaw dropped. Holy *bleep!!!!* *This is a GOD*. OMG – that voice. Froze in wonder. Kept thinking I’d crawl over broken glass for “this guy”. Jes*&^. How could the dwarves of the 7 kingdoms NOT go along with THIS dwarf? (OK, I still hit the replay button on the speech!)
23) After Thorin’s triumphal moment, Balin states that “there is no way into the mountain.” How did you feel when you heard this?
It’s a perfect Balin moment, and makes sense that there would have been a catch in getting into the mountain, especially after the dragon has been trashing things – including the main door.
24) Do you think they will have anything extra about how Gandalf had found the key in the Extended Edition?
No, think it MIGHT show up in DOS. But either way it would be good to see him acquire the key – not critical as Gandalf explains he got the key from Thrain, but think we all would like to see how and when.
”The answer lies hidden somewhere in this map and I do not have the skills to find it. But, there are others in Middle-Earth who can.”
25) When you first saw this, did you know who he meant (as you had read the book)?
Can’t remember the book enough – but for me that could have been anyone at that point – Saruman, elves, Beorn, or some other denizen of Middle Earth like a village “wise woman” even.
26) Do you like this link to LOTR?
*Shrugs* not as concerned as linking to LOTR as others, or even PJ, not sure I have much of an opinion here.
27) The contract in the book was short. Do you like the fact that the contract is very long (so much for a “usual brief summary”) and full of things that have been added in?
Yes, I love the long contract, and it’s a lot of fun to pick through (have a copy in the WETA book). And the long contract with the tacked –in additions is whimsical and fun!)
”I cannot guarantee his safety.”
“Understood.”
“Nor will I be responsible for his fate.”
“...Agreed.”
I think Thorin says this to Gandalf because even though his says this in a harsh tone, deep down this shows that he is worried about Bilbo.
28) Why do you think Thorin says this to Gandalf?
Think Thorin is a decent, even noble “guy” BUT he is also driven and furious – so he’ll go along with Gandalf, but letting Gandalf know straight up there’s not going to be any mercy for Bilbo re the quest, e.g. like POTC if a man falls behind, he’s left behind. And if Bilbo falls, it’s on Gandalf’s head. But Thorin’s also angry because inherently he would not let harm fall to anyone in his “company” because that’s how good leaders are – see this later when Thorin saves Bilbo (in spite of what Thorin says at Bag End).
”Oh aye, he'll melt the flesh off your bones in the blink of an eye... Think furnace with wings... Flash of light, searing pain and ‘poof’ – you're nothing more than a pile of ash!”
29) Do you think Bofur was trying to make Bilbo laugh, or was he trying to wind Bilbo up?
Think Bofur was just being cheerfully, dwarfishly, insensitive, which is what makes this funny – he’s puzzled when Bilbo passes out!
My favourite quote is Kíli’s "Gandalf will have killed hundreds of dragons in his time" – you underestimate wizards, Kíli!
30 [final question] ) What is your favourite quote from this scene?
Am not quite sure what you mean here? So much of the sequence from Thorin entering to Bilbo passing out is etched in my head. It’s all so perfect, IMO. Some things that stick out for me: Thorin dominating the table even in silence, and the speech, and his look of vulnerability at seeing the key, and the fierce coldness when he warns Gandalf about Bilbo; how perfectly MF plays Bilbo (even the way he uses his hands) and his ability to show anxious vulnerability when he starts protesting and then reading the contract and getting faint, the way Gandalf says “Far to the east, over ranges, and rivers, lies a single solitary peak” and when he is talking about Bilbo “He has more to offer than any of you know, including himself”; Balin, Bofur, and Gloin watching Bilbo; Kili’s youthful lively exuberance and obvious relationship with Fili.
Hmmm – time to watch AUJ again, LOL!!!
|
|
|
|
Subject
|
User
|
Time
|
Chapter of the Week: Thorin Oakenshield
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 18 2013, 1:44pm
|
I *love* the picture of Thorin at the top!
|
Silwen_Peredhil
|
Oct 18 2013, 4:48pm
|
|
Why, thank you, Silwen!
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 19 2013, 9:02am
|
|
You're welcome.
|
Silwen_Peredhil
|
Oct 19 2013, 8:34pm
|
|
Well now that screencap
|
Kim
|
Oct 19 2013, 8:36pm
|
|
Very true, Kim.
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 19 2013, 9:26pm
|
|
It's one of my favorite pictures from the new trailer too...
|
Dwarewien
|
Oct 19 2013, 10:13pm
|
|
Great point about the refusal of Dain, et al
|
Brethil
|
Oct 19 2013, 11:15pm
|
|
Dain's refusal
|
Riven Delve
|
Oct 21 2013, 12:11pm
|
|
You are right RD -
|
Brethil
|
Oct 22 2013, 10:13pm
|
|
Ah, more excellent answers!
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 20 2013, 8:44am
|
|
How did you know that was a favourite screencap of mine!?
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 19 2013, 8:40pm
|
|
Well, while we're sharing favorite screencaps from this scene
|
Kim
|
Oct 19 2013, 11:52pm
|
|
I was *so* close to posting that image to you yesterday!//
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 20 2013, 8:46am
|
|
Glad you like it //
|
Silwen_Peredhil
|
Oct 20 2013, 4:30pm
|
|
Ah, a subject dear to my heart!
|
Old Toby
|
Oct 18 2013, 6:52pm
|
|
Lion's mane.....
|
Avandel
|
Oct 18 2013, 8:23pm
|
|
Too tired to respond to the OPs very long post at the mo.
|
Glorfindela
|
Oct 18 2013, 10:20pm
|
|
on Thorin's side.....
|
Avandel
|
Oct 18 2013, 11:08pm
|
|
This one I may have to split in half, since this could take a while...
|
Dwarewien
|
Oct 18 2013, 10:55pm
|
|
Great analysis so far, Queen of Erebor!
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 19 2013, 9:15am
|
|
re scene thoughts
|
Avandel
|
Oct 18 2013, 7:05pm
|
|
You forgot the best Thorin screencap of them all
|
thomasofrohan
|
Oct 18 2013, 11:00pm
|
|
awwww *melting*
|
Avandel
|
Oct 18 2013, 11:10pm
|
|
Finally!
|
Kim
|
Oct 18 2013, 11:19pm
|
|
I knew you'd find your way here!
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 19 2013, 8:45am
|
|
LOL! I love that you remembered that Kim!
|
Brethil
|
Oct 19 2013, 11:10pm
|
|
I'm really pleased you chose this screencap ...
|
DanielLB
|
Oct 19 2013, 9:09am
|
|
Agreed.
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 19 2013, 9:44am
|
|
Interesting screencap.
|
Silwen_Peredhil
|
Oct 19 2013, 8:26pm
|
|
Oh! Good ideas!
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 19 2013, 8:38pm
|
|
This is part of my favourite section of the movie, which includes the scenes from "Good Morning" to Bilbo running out the door to join the quest
|
Noria
|
Oct 19 2013, 3:09pm
|
|
Dinner Discussion!!!!
|
Brethil
|
Oct 19 2013, 7:45pm
|
|
Great analysis, Brethil!
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 19 2013, 8:15pm
|
|
A little note about Question 10
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 19 2013, 8:18pm
|
|
Oh darn! I forgot to answer it!!! Thanks for the reminder!
|
Brethil
|
Oct 19 2013, 8:39pm
|
|
Haha, no worries!
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 19 2013, 8:43pm
|
|
Du Bekar!
|
Esmeralda
|
Oct 20 2013, 3:13pm
|
|
Fabulous answers, Esmeralda!
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 20 2013, 3:46pm
|
|
Hello, your majesticness!
|
Riven Delve
|
Oct 21 2013, 2:05am
|
|
Great answers there, Riven Delve!
|
FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
|
Oct 21 2013, 9:20am
|
|
|
|
