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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Not exactly...

arithmancer
Gondor


Sep 30 2013, 1:09pm


Views: 637
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Not exactly... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It was obviously envisioned to become the next "get away from her, you ****!" and failed epically. Nobody ever quotes it and few who remember it often cringe because it was too Buffy for Middle Earth.


In every showing of this film I attended in theatres, this line got a cheer from the audience. So my own experience is that the above statement is simply false.


In Reply To
What Went Wrong in the movie

In the book, Eowyn reveals herself to WK as soon as he assumes she is a male. This works on 2 levels:

a) it evokes Beauty and the Beast, which is one of the most powerful images in fiction, successfully re-played in iconic monster movies such as original King Kong, Creature from Black Lagoon, and Dracula also heavily borrowed the undertones. We have Eowyn's beautiful face pit against the hideous WK and his beast. The contrast is so powerful it inspires Merry to spring into action.


In the book, we have no idea who Dernhelm is unless we have made a shrewd guess. In the movie, there is no Dernhelm. There is Eowyn, who rides to Gondor with the others against Theoden's order, and takes Merry along. We see her fight in the various phases of the battle, taking on for example an Oliphaunt with the help of Merry (when he holds the reins, e. g So we do indeed see her face the WK.


In Reply To
b) it shows Eowyn's chivalry. She masked herself to go into battle but she honorably shows her true face to the enemy. Since he revealed to her how he could be defeated, she shows him that she could fulfill it unless he backs off.


She is not aware of the prophecy, and in the common thinking of her age her gender is not an advantage in a fight (or, she would be riding openly... Wink. The helmet is a standard piece of armor; her adversary (and everyone in the army she rides in) is wearing one. She does warn her enemy of her intent to kill him if he persists in attacking her king. Which, actually, reveals her gender and/or her extreme youth to her enemy. (I wonder, is a boy whose voice has not yet broken, "no man"?)

When the WK states no living man can kill him (the first moment at which it may reasonably occur to Eowyn that her gender could be relevant to her opponent), she does reveal it.


In Reply To
In the movie, Eowyn keeps her really unflattering
helmet, that made her look about as hideous as WK, for way too long.


Personally, I did not find her helmet hideous. I would not wear it to a party (unless it was a themed costume party!) but it is a perfectly serviceable Rohirrim helmet, nothing like his. And to me, the "Beauty and the Beast" things was going. It was she in the fight, one's senses revealed this fact in a number of ways. Her slight. short figure, the movement of her body, her voice, my/the audience's knowledge of her identity, and having already seen her fight in this battle, in these clothes, made it so.


In Reply To
The beauty of the book reveal is that nobody - readers, Merry and WK - knows Dernhelm's true identity and then we all find out at the same time. It's powerful because nobody could see it coming and because of the strong archetype mentioned above. In the movie, none is present.


To be clear, I am not arguing that it is just as in the book. Quite right that the element of surprise as to her identity is not there for the audience. But for a non-viewer, there would be an element of surprise that she is killing the WK.(About whom even Gandalf expresses reservations). And the archetype is there.

I also find that the book version sort of stretches credulity. That this is a surprise to Merry is a bit much. He spends days in her company.


In Reply To
HGH cries (as in battle cry), HBH growls some more (including a crash course on How I Can Be Defeated)


Your recollection of the scene is inaccurate. At this point HBH says only "Do not come between the Nazgul and his prey!", in answer to her "I will kill you if you touch him!"


In Reply To
Ceremonially taking off her helmet (while leaving herself defenseless in those moment when helmet passes over her eyes and one of her hands is busy with the helmet)


Before, you found this same action chivalrous...

I would also just add, that you reference a Beauty and the Beast archetype, but I think the scene with Eowyn (in both book and film) also captures another, that of David vs. Goliath.

Anyway, it always was, and remains, a favorite scene of mine in the film.

Subject User Time
Eowyn VS The Witch-King Barrow-Wight Send a private message to Barrow-Wight Sep 29 2013, 5:25pm
    the line didn't work at all Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Sep 29 2013, 8:24pm
        "I am no man" Fredeghar Wayfarer Send a private message to Fredeghar Wayfarer Sep 30 2013, 5:50am
            Legolas totally 100% stole the show Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Sep 30 2013, 12:49pm
        Not exactly... arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Sep 30 2013, 1:09pm
            *claps* Well said!!! FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Send a private message to FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Sep 30 2013, 1:33pm
            And 10 years later nobody remembers it Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Sep 30 2013, 4:57pm
                Kick-a** heroines arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Sep 30 2013, 7:08pm
                    Hey, Boba Fett was a silent glorified cameo in ESB Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Sep 30 2013, 10:12pm
                        Boba Fett... arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Oct 1 2013, 12:54pm
                            adding one Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Oct 2 2013, 3:16am
                                I thought that her overacting was ridiculous Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Oct 2 2013, 3:35pm
                                    There Faleel Send a private message to Faleel Oct 2 2013, 6:35pm
                                        ha! Barrow-Wight Send a private message to Barrow-Wight Oct 3 2013, 2:30am
                                            I'd say "sand" and "man" were about equally bad Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Oct 3 2013, 12:28pm
                                        That's always a comfort! Werde Spinner Send a private message to Werde Spinner Oct 3 2013, 3:24am
                                    Really? Just shows how people can have dramatically different interpretations... MatthewJer18 Send a private message to MatthewJer18 Oct 3 2013, 3:11pm
                                        As you said people have dramatically different interpretations Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Oct 3 2013, 3:21pm
                                            eowyn and eomer are about the same age Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Oct 3 2013, 7:23pm
                                                Urban looked younger Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Oct 3 2013, 7:29pm
                                            Plain?! Meneldor Send a private message to Meneldor Oct 3 2013, 8:20pm
                                        Miranda Otto Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Oct 3 2013, 5:18pm
                                            Again, each to its own Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Oct 3 2013, 5:48pm
                                                Wow Starling Send a private message to Starling Oct 3 2013, 6:53pm
                                                    I say she's obviously in her 30s Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Oct 3 2013, 7:28pm
                                                        echoing starling's "wow" Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Oct 3 2013, 8:06pm
                                                            I didn't say teen behavior but teen soap opera behavior Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Oct 3 2013, 8:26pm
                                                            "it does astonish me that someone could have such a pronounced, negative reaction to otto's performance." Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Oct 4 2013, 12:20am
                                                                people think alike Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Oct 4 2013, 1:28am
                                                                    The Faleel Send a private message to Faleel Oct 4 2013, 2:21am
                                                                        Oddly enough Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Oct 4 2013, 5:52pm
                                                                    just to say.... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Oct 4 2013, 3:59am
                                                                        Thanks! Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Oct 4 2013, 10:25am
                                                                    Let's be honest? Starling Send a private message to Starling Oct 4 2013, 4:10am
                                                                    From a book-firster perspective CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Oct 22 2013, 12:14am
                                                                        Maybe the difference is in Eowyn's presentation Elciryamo Send a private message to Elciryamo Oct 22 2013, 6:32am
                                                I agree to each their own. Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Oct 3 2013, 7:49pm
                                            Definitely agree Old Pilgrim Send a private message to Old Pilgrim Oct 9 2013, 8:03am
                            Speaking of Star Wars characters... Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Send a private message to Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Oct 7 2013, 7:29pm
                I would definitely say it does the same for me... Misty Mountain Hop Send a private message to Misty Mountain Hop Oct 8 2013, 6:07pm
    Like much of ROTK, the focus was on 'coolness' sycorax82 Send a private message to sycorax82 Sep 30 2013, 12:30am
        But neither turned cool Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Sep 30 2013, 12:45pm
    I admit to not being a fan of this scene demnation Send a private message to demnation Sep 30 2013, 10:07am
        many cheesy lines get saved by delivery Semper Fi Send a private message to Semper Fi Sep 30 2013, 12:51pm
    Honestly, I don't understand what the fuss is about either Ziggy Stardust Send a private message to Ziggy Stardust Oct 2 2013, 12:50am
    The Line Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Oct 3 2013, 1:05pm
    i loved the witch king flameofudun Send a private message to flameofudun Oct 4 2013, 1:43am
    I thought the scene worked brilliantly in the film, sauget.diblosio Send a private message to sauget.diblosio Nov 7 2013, 3:10am
    Another one simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Dec 28 2013, 1:20am

 
 
 

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