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JWPlatt
Grey Havens
Sep 24 2013, 4:17am
Views: 581
Shortcut
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Boyens Statement Was Considered
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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I'm pretty sure that if you asked Philippa Boyens straight on whether she unambiguously thought that Galadriel was more powerful than Gandalf (particularly Gandalf the White), or Sauron, she would say no, of course not; Galadriel was one of a number of powerful beings in Middle-earth... There are others, however, in whose posts I see a much less wholesome motivation. Their posts do not make me chuckle. They make me sad. I do not underestimate Philippa Boyens' intelligence. If she were asked that question, she would understand the subtext surrounding it and would answer according to your common sense suggestion, if only to smartly avoid the political turmoil. I suspect I am one of those unnamed "others." Let's not beat around the bush. I give Philippa Boyens all the educated credit she has earned to be deliberate in her comments after years of deeply living in the lore while writing The Lord of the Rings, writing The Hobbt, and preparing for an endless series of interviews over the span of a decade or more. I am certain she would completely understand this discussion. We can see in the LOTR commentaries how thoroughly they considered all the reasons behind what they put on the screen in the adaptation, including Frodo's goodbye to Sam. Right or wrong, those things were all justified with deliberate thought. In the end, your claim that it was an offhand comment is just as much speculation as mine that it was not. But it is beyond belief to me, between her depth of knowledge of Middle-earth, her statement about Galadriel, and her statement about Galadirel and especially in the context of Tauriel bringing a "feminine energy," that she was not perfectly prepared to justify an agenda with PR-speak that could conceivably reveal either her or their personal, collective motivations. But I also don't discount the kind of pressure WB might put on them to spread out the demographic on a big budget film, albeit at lower risk than the first time. So that's the fear - the plot or presentation of a beloved mythology changed for the sake of more profit or today's politics. We'll only find out if this is rational or paranoid by the end of the final installment. So yes, motivation and whether it was offhand or not, is all speculation from here until then.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Why it is important that Galadriel (whom I love) not be the Glinda of The Hobbit, nor relate to The Wizards as
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 20 2013, 1:21am
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Well said AinurOlorin
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Ziggy Stardust
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Sep 20 2013, 1:57am
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Thank You, Agreed, and indeed.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 20 2013, 2:10am
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Agreed
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Rembrethil
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Sep 20 2013, 3:19am
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We are on the same mind here
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Old Pilgrim
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Sep 20 2013, 5:58am
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Going mostly OT...but who actually is the most powerful person in M.E at the time of The Hobbit?
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malickfan
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Sep 20 2013, 6:56pm
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I would say Sauron, who was one of the mightiest of the Maiar...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 20 2013, 7:10pm
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Agreed
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Rembrethil
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Sep 20 2013, 7:13pm
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Yeah, I'd agree with that...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 20 2013, 7:37pm
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You're probably right......
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dormouse
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Sep 20 2013, 7:24pm
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Yeah, it is altogether meaningless...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 20 2013, 7:36pm
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I can't see that happening....
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dormouse
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Sep 20 2013, 8:09pm
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Well it's pretty obvious that some people are worried...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 20 2013, 8:49pm
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Yes, they are.....
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dormouse
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Sep 20 2013, 10:12pm
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Not really sure what to tell you dormouse...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 20 2013, 11:13pm
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Well, they thought of having the Staff of the Chief Istari Messenger of Eru and The Valar shattered by Sauron's human-Wraith
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 21 2013, 12:36am
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This is what it all comes back to really, isn't it?
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dormouse
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Sep 21 2013, 8:56am
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Well, lets just have Sauron overrun Lothlorien, "dragon fire and savage swords in Eriador, Night in Rivendell"
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 21 2013, 12:45pm
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Do I? Crumbs, I wish you took mine!!!!
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dormouse
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Sep 21 2013, 1:43pm
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Tolkien is so confusing...or is he, really?
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Girdle of Melian
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Sep 21 2013, 4:36pm
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Galadriel's Power
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JWPlatt
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Sep 21 2013, 4:47pm
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Gandalf is emasculated and subservient if Galadriel is more powerful that he is???
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Noria
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Sep 21 2013, 5:07pm
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Not necessarily...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 21 2013, 5:32pm
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Istari are lesser Ainur, spirits existing before Creation
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JWPlatt
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Sep 22 2013, 12:08am
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I know that...
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Noria
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Sep 22 2013, 12:46pm
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The Path Of Relativism In Adaptations
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JWPlatt
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Sep 22 2013, 3:23pm
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That is a PROBLEM
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 22 2013, 6:18pm
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The fact of the matter is...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 21 2013, 5:24pm
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This is starting to sound like 'My Dad's bigger than your Dad" ;-)
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dormouse
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Sep 21 2013, 5:45pm
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Not really talking about the same thing...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 21 2013, 6:32pm
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What makes you think.....
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dormouse
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Sep 21 2013, 6:51pm
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Once again...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 21 2013, 7:05pm
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It's all a bit convoluted
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Rembrethil
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Sep 21 2013, 5:50pm
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Again, we're talking about display of force here...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 21 2013, 6:40pm
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Heirarchy Yes but when clothed in the deceits of middle earth No.
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Michelle Johnston
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Sep 21 2013, 9:46pm
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Slip of the tongue...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 21 2013, 11:40pm
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Ainur, Is it the ring is it Galadriel and Context will be everything
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Michelle Johnston
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Sep 22 2013, 6:23am
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Galadriel's stature
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Elthir
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Sep 22 2013, 6:34pm
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Unfinished Tales
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Michelle Johnston
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Sep 22 2013, 7:34pm
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A clarification
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Michelle Johnston
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Sep 22 2013, 8:01pm
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Harmony
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Elthir
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Sep 23 2013, 2:32pm
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You may point to this, yes, but...
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Elthir
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Sep 23 2013, 2:02pm
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Subjective Responce To Variants
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Michelle Johnston
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Sep 24 2013, 2:54pm
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Ah okay, no worries
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Elthir
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Sep 24 2013, 5:17pm
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Sauron and Melkor were tainted and bound by corruption, but not diminished in force. Their diminishing was the result
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 22 2013, 1:33am
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I don't see Elrond as more powerful than Galadriel. Luthien, mayhap Dior, not Elrond.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 22 2013, 1:04am
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Glorfindel's prophecy...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 21 2013, 6:54pm
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But in Middle Earth he was a man, effectively.....
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dormouse
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Sep 21 2013, 7:22pm
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Mods up just about everything dormouse has said on this thread//
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Calmandcloudless
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Sep 21 2013, 8:24pm
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Thanks, Calmandcloudless //
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dormouse
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Sep 22 2013, 7:33am
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Come on dormouse...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 21 2013, 11:19pm
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One other thing...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 21 2013, 11:59pm
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He was not a real human. Real humans don't wander undeteriorated by time for two thousand years. He was clothed in real matter/flesh
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 22 2013, 12:52am
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I rest my case....
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dormouse
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Sep 22 2013, 7:34am
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You can't rest yet
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Sep 22 2013, 1:36pm
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Not sure who you are referring to...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 22 2013, 2:30pm
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Not you
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Sep 22 2013, 5:19pm
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Is it? As an individual Power, or as a ruler and Power.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 22 2013, 6:40pm
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But I think you've missed Voronwe's point, AO...
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dormouse
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Sep 22 2013, 7:03pm
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You can speak for me
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Sep 22 2013, 9:28pm
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I agree 100% //
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dormouse
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Sep 22 2013, 10:17pm
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I think it is you who have missed my point. I was not attempting to rigidly assign
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 23 2013, 3:56am
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So, What Did Tolkien Actually Mean By This?
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Girdle of Melian
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Sep 23 2013, 12:12am
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Because there were no known Balrogs to come there. Lol. Its a moot statement. He doesn't mention Melkor
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 23 2013, 11:12am
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Heirs of Finwe...
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Eleniel
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Sep 23 2013, 1:33pm
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Without absolute certainty, I would say this. . . there comes a point at which enchantments
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 23 2013, 2:27pm
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That makes sense...
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Eleniel
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Sep 23 2013, 2:36pm
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I don't think it inconsistent. I don't think it something that the Wizards, in Sauron's absence, could not
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 23 2013, 2:45pm
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Are These Two The Only Two High Elves That Slew Balrogs (Mair)?
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Girdle of Melian
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Sep 22 2013, 6:57pm
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In the revised legendarium, yes, just those two. Even before revisions, no Balrog had ever been
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 23 2013, 3:53am
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*mods up*
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dernwyn
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Sep 22 2013, 7:18pm
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Chess
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JWPlatt
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Sep 22 2013, 7:29pm
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But which is the most powerful piece?
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dernwyn
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Sep 23 2013, 2:06am
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Argument
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Salmacis81
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Sep 23 2013, 11:03am
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Exactly this.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 23 2013, 11:36am
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For the sake of argument?
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dormouse
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Sep 23 2013, 1:15pm
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Fair enough to the first point, and duly noted.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 23 2013, 1:32pm
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The prophecy referred specifically to the hand of man....
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dormouse
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Sep 23 2013, 2:18pm
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I don't recall saying he was invulnerable. He did
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 23 2013, 2:40pm
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Men
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JWPlatt
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Sep 24 2013, 3:39am
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Funnily enough...... //
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dormouse
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Sep 24 2013, 7:15am
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Note the "perhaps"...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 23 2013, 2:16pm
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My advice, for what it is worth
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Sep 23 2013, 2:21pm
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Yes, you're right...
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dormouse
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Sep 23 2013, 3:19pm
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Indeed I do understand!
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Sep 23 2013, 4:21pm
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So am I
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dormouse
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Sep 23 2013, 4:45pm
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Absolutely
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Sep 23 2013, 5:42pm
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Really enjoy reading your thoughts here.
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cats16
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Sep 23 2013, 7:11pm
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Thanks!
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Sep 23 2013, 7:23pm
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The most powerful being ion Middle Earth is..... Drumroll please......
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Jettorex
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Sep 23 2013, 7:46pm
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Not without vital help of Gollum and Sam ...
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DanielLB
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Sep 23 2013, 8:05pm
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Daniel! Thou hast returned! lol Good to see ya
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 24 2013, 12:44am
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We have a level of agreement here.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 24 2013, 12:09am
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Ambiguity
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Rembrethil
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Sep 23 2013, 11:54pm
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I would agree with that second paragraph.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 24 2013, 12:06am
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It is the utter LACK of ambiguity in her statement that really bothered and vexes me, Voronwe.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 24 2013, 12:43am
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For heaven's sake, it was an off-hand comment
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Sep 24 2013, 3:03am
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The problem is that Ms. Boyens made the statement in a very public forum, and she is one of the key voices of authority on the films
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 24 2013, 4:10am
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chuckles//
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Sep 24 2013, 4:49am
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Boyens Statement Was Considered
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JWPlatt
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Sep 24 2013, 4:17am
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Well said, Voronwe
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Altaira
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Sep 25 2013, 3:26am
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To clarify
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Sep 25 2013, 3:42am
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To clarify
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Altaira
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Sep 25 2013, 4:02am
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To be very clear, and speaking only for myself, of course, my issues and consternation
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 25 2013, 4:47am
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Well said Altaira and Voronwe
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Noria
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Sep 25 2013, 12:18pm
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I will also add that I have always been among those who supported and lauded Galadriel being in the film
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 25 2013, 8:56pm
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Fantastic post!
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cats16
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Sep 25 2013, 3:39pm
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Not every objection to something involving a female character is sexist. I have seen sexist and racist remarks
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 25 2013, 8:45pm
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No one has said
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Altaira
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Sep 25 2013, 9:19pm
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So What did Philippa based her comment on?
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Girdle of Melian
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Sep 25 2013, 10:03pm
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Hers was a definitive statement. Regarding my statement, I
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2013, 12:17am
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I understand and appreciate your point about how things can come across.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 25 2013, 11:38pm
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Duck Test
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Darkstone
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Sep 25 2013, 4:03pm
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Well
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Darkstone
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Sep 25 2013, 5:17pm
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*chuckles*.... //
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dormouse
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Sep 25 2013, 5:20pm
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Maybe you should re-read what I actually said...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 25 2013, 11:09pm
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One motive only....
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dormouse
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Sep 26 2013, 7:58am
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Clarification...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 26 2013, 11:54am
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Hmmm...
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Girdle of Melian
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Sep 26 2013, 11:59am
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Well, several things, first, it isn't just that the Balrog was from another Age, which
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2013, 12:52pm
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This debate
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Elessar
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Sep 26 2013, 1:13pm
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Dear, Elessar,
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 27 2013, 10:56pm
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Thanks AO :-)
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Elessar
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Sep 27 2013, 11:23pm
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As to this...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 26 2013, 12:43pm
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Son, that's the problem.
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Darkstone
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Sep 26 2013, 1:19pm
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LOL
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Salmacis81
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Sep 26 2013, 1:49pm
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Good for you! /
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Darkstone
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Sep 26 2013, 1:53pm
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THANKS!!
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Salmacis81
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Sep 26 2013, 1:57pm
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Group hug!
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Altaira
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Sep 26 2013, 4:16pm
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Erm
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JWPlatt
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Sep 27 2013, 2:22pm
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Lol. Well, if winding down it is, let me, on a personal if slightly egoist note, thank All
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 27 2013, 11:03pm
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Twas a great thread.....
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Salmacis81
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Sep 27 2013, 11:26pm
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Awww. Hug happily received and reciprocated.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 27 2013, 10:59pm
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No, doormouse, it doesn't make a difference. The fact that he acknowledges them all
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 22 2013, 12:37am
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The nub of the storyline anticipation
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Michelle Johnston
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Sep 21 2013, 12:14pm
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Bingo
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 20 2013, 11:31pm
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Meaning
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JWPlatt
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Sep 21 2013, 12:41am
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Oh - are we discussing Philippa Boyens?
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dormouse
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Sep 21 2013, 10:12am
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Great myth making refracts human frailty
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Michelle Johnston
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Sep 21 2013, 11:14am
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I agree about no absolutes, but not in the way I think you mean it.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 21 2013, 1:00pm
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Dormouse, Michelle, that is how I see Tolkien
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Noria
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Sep 21 2013, 1:02pm
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Boyens
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JWPlatt
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Sep 21 2013, 4:29pm
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Right, Middle-earth isn't Azeroth
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Darkstone
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Sep 25 2013, 4:59pm
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Hmm...I seem to have forgotten about those guys-all the obvious candiates
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malickfan
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Sep 20 2013, 7:26pm
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Hmmm
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Girdle of Melian
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Sep 20 2013, 8:00pm
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Mostly true, and she was very powerful. Was Bombadil overlooked. In any event, even at 8
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 21 2013, 12:30am
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The Elven Rings
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Na Vedui
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Sep 20 2013, 11:41pm
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The nature of "power"
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Na Vedui
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Sep 24 2013, 1:21am
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Er..... who's Glinda? //
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dormouse
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Sep 20 2013, 11:19am
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Dmouse...Glinda was played by Billy Burke was....
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Bombadil
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Sep 20 2013, 11:58am
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Thank'ee!
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dormouse
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Sep 20 2013, 12:47pm
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I am amazed
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Kangi Ska
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Sep 20 2013, 3:27pm
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I have seen it, honest....
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dormouse
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Sep 20 2013, 3:30pm
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As goofy as this film version of Radagast is...
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Salmacis81
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Sep 20 2013, 2:58pm
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Ugh. Amended. lol And I hope so too, VERY much, concerning Ms. Boyens.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 20 2013, 11:26pm
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What you say is true, but most likely...
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Girdle of Melian
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Sep 20 2013, 6:56pm
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She was in the Tutelage of a Maiar, but she was not herself one. The Istari, on the other hand, are Maiar
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 21 2013, 12:17am
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