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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
not hiding, just on the road...

telain
Rohan

Aug 7 2013, 1:40pm


Views: 67
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not hiding, just on the road... [In reply to] Can't Post

that subject line refers to me and my latest excuse for late responses...

I think these are excellent examples of how the sleeping theme gets transmitted throughout LotR:


Quote
What do you think of the ring-smiths of the Noldor? If learning is awakening, they learned a whole new craft in forging their rings of power, and whether sullied by Sauron or not, they were works of wonder. That heightened knowledge led to their downfall, and oddly, though the Three resulted from the pinnacle of that awakened breakthrough, their keepers used them to create sleepy, dreamy realms remembering the past but not dealing with the waking world. Ironic? Treebeard even commented that his Elven neighbors had gone from Lothlorien to simply "Lorien," or Dreamflower.

Last point: isn't it the Istari's mission, and Cirdan's explicit comment to Gandalf re: Narya, that they need to wake up the world to fight the creeping menace of the Shadow?


So, in a word: Yes!

Those double-edged Feanorian sword-rings are tricksy... I do think that the ringsmiths did both a service and a disservice to the Elven realms. Much as we have talked about technology (neutral) being used for Good or for Evil, I think the rings were Good in the sense of Progress (i.e., learning/knowing more about Arda), but they were used to hold things still (especially in the Elven sense -- and to make things like Valinor, which Middle-earth is not) so there's a problem there.

I think your points about Gondolin remaining a vital realm is key. If you are going into hiding it must still be an active hiding -- you must still want to grow, prosper, develop, etc. A few times we have noted that Tolkien seems to employ rather Eastern-ish philosophies and here would be another one. I think it is the Tao Te Ching that emphasizes that "alive" things are flexible, they move and change with different circumstances, whereas "dead" things are stiff, static and brittle. What were Rivendell and Lorien doing lately (apart from holding off evil?) Were they advancing in any way? I don't get that impression. There was certainly a "giving up" -- whether it was their will, or Eru's.

I do think Tolkien was a bit critical of some of Hobbit society: the petty, the "mean". I also think he was a bit critical of how (some of) the Hobbits almost actively ignored the strange goings on around them. They could have been much better prepared if they had "sent out riders" to find out what was going on in the wider world. I do think, however, he was quite happy with the state of Hobbit society otherwise, and so would not have put them in the "asleep" category completely...

Subject User Time
TORn AMATEUR SYMPOSIUM Day Six- The Silmarillion topics TORn Amateur Symposium Send a private message to TORn Amateur Symposium Jul 26 2013, 7:06am
    Subthread for "Who was the original owner of Orcrist?" by Dark Jackal TORn Amateur Symposium Send a private message to TORn Amateur Symposium Jul 26 2013, 7:07am
        Really nice reasoning DJ! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 26 2013, 10:09am
            I agree - good bit of deduction! // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 26 2013, 12:13pm
            I would love to find out how the swords got from Gondolin to the Trolls hoard DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 26 2013, 5:42pm
                UUT - mithril shirt Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jul 26 2013, 7:01pm
                    Thanks for the link Ardamire! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 26 2013, 7:58pm
                        Another one Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jul 26 2013, 8:19pm
                            I love this theory! Riven Delve Send a private message to Riven Delve Jul 26 2013, 8:30pm
                                Isn't it great? Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jul 26 2013, 8:39pm
                                Commonality in surviving Beleriand Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 26 2013, 8:47pm
                                    Sounds like that could make for a nice speculative essay next time round, Brethil DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 27 2013, 3:15pm
                                        Its a dangerous business, posting on this forum... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 27 2013, 3:36pm
                            Another cool idea .. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 26 2013, 8:35pm
                                Intriguing Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jul 26 2013, 8:45pm
                                    It not only adds to the mystery Riven Delve Send a private message to Riven Delve Jul 26 2013, 10:13pm
                    That's the one, thank you Ardamírë. DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 26 2013, 8:10pm
                        Agreed Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jul 26 2013, 8:21pm
                I wonder about this too, elaen and Daniel Riven Delve Send a private message to Riven Delve Jul 26 2013, 7:58pm
        Love the logic of your construct DarkJackal! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 26 2013, 3:17pm
        A short but sweet paper Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 26 2013, 3:29pm
        Beautiful! But - sador Send a private message to sador Aug 4 2013, 10:39am
    Subthread for "The Silmarillion as Awakening to the Real World and Adulthood" by Telain TORn Amateur Symposium Send a private message to TORn Amateur Symposium Jul 26 2013, 7:08am
        Loved reading this Telain elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 26 2013, 11:01am
            Re waking & sleeping when the hobbits return to the Shire noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 26 2013, 12:12pm
            bring forth the "beautiful harmonic"! telain Send a private message to telain Jul 26 2013, 2:12pm
                regressing and proud of it // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 26 2013, 2:51pm
                    I shall regress as one of you! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 26 2013, 3:52pm
            Frodo's falling asleep Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 26 2013, 3:44pm
        Melian as a sleeper noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 26 2013, 12:18pm
            Absolutely! telain Send a private message to telain Jul 26 2013, 3:26pm
                Melian and Thingol Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 26 2013, 3:51pm
            Asleep in one's lingerie CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 3 2013, 9:50pm
            about Melian and the silmaril elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Aug 7 2013, 7:53pm
        So many great examples in the literature Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 26 2013, 3:39pm
            Hanseol and Aretel? telain Send a private message to telain Jul 26 2013, 4:29pm
                Sleeping through the ages Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 26 2013, 6:28pm
        Great essay, thank you telain :-) DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 26 2013, 6:04pm
            I thank you! Ents and morning people... telain Send a private message to telain Jul 27 2013, 10:06pm
                Evolution of the Ents Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 30 2013, 4:34pm
                    that works for me telain Send a private message to telain Jul 30 2013, 10:53pm
                        Ents and Entwives Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Aug 3 2013, 3:44pm
                            ents, elves and eriador telain Send a private message to telain Aug 7 2013, 1:27pm
                                Absolutely relevant (and thanks again for that recc!) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Aug 7 2013, 5:17pm
                        Of hiding CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 3 2013, 9:42pm
                            Great points on the Elf strongholds CG Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Aug 3 2013, 10:35pm
                            "Dead they looked, and yet it was not so ... Asleep they were." squire Send a private message to squire Aug 4 2013, 2:49am
                                Another Tolkien theme coming into view? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 4 2013, 9:03pm
                                    Oog squire Send a private message to squire Aug 5 2013, 12:13am
                                        I agree - caution needed about Good and Evil (with caps) noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 5 2013, 6:47am
                                        Haemorrheges shrinking without surgery, and the like. // sador Send a private message to sador Aug 5 2013, 7:53am
                            not hiding, just on the road... telain Send a private message to telain Aug 7 2013, 1:40pm
        I finally got to read this. sador Send a private message to sador Aug 4 2013, 10:30am
            and I am finally getting to answer! telain Send a private message to telain Aug 7 2013, 9:40pm
                One of my favorite Tolkien lines, on this squire Send a private message to squire Aug 8 2013, 1:09am
                    oh, nice quote telain Send a private message to telain Aug 9 2013, 10:00pm

 
 
 

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