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noWizardme
Half-elven
Aug 5 2013, 6:47am
Views: 396
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I agree - caution needed about Good and Evil (with caps)
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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That's a good point (though not, obviously, a Good point ) I seem to remember there's a letter in which JRRT is reacting crossly to the idea that he wrote simplistic moral tales. But then I also seem to remember that some critics disliked LOTR because they couldn't perceive clear goodies and baddies. I think that is because Tolkien didn't write a simplistic moral tale - he wrote a complex one. Who is motivated principally by acting for the force of Evil - as per Squire's quote, nobody, I'd say - they are all furthering their own selfish ends "Who is principally motivated by being a force for Good?" turns out to be an interesting question. I've got these candidates Gandalf - pretty clearly Saruman - interestingly. I do beleive that he would claim to be a power for Good almost throughout. Possibly not at the very end when he is doing his best to ruin the Shire out of revenge and spite . But I suspect someone interviewing him as his armies marched off to Helm's Deep would find him claiming to be doing Good. Frodo? - probably. He's altruistically motivated, but with a strong motive to save the Shire, not the universe. Aragorn? - possibly. Though fighting Sauron is bound up with both his role and his personal wishes Elrond, Galadriel? Possibly, though they are also defending their peoples, as is their duty as leaders. A lot of characters are primarily concerned with defending their own patch and interests. Pleased to be doing what they see as good (or even Good) but it's hard work for Gandalf to string together a n anti-Sauron coalition, because on the whole people want to live and let live. That said, Good and Evil are certainly recognizable, and not just on the basis of who are the principal characters. It is a different situation to, say Lannister versus Baratheon versus Targaryen (as in George RR Martin's Game of Thrones series).
Disclaimers: The words of noWizardme may stand on their heads! I'm often wrong about things, and its fun to be taught more.... "nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' " Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"
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TORn AMATEUR SYMPOSIUM Day Six- The Silmarillion topics
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TORn Amateur Symposium
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Jul 26 2013, 7:06am
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Subthread for "Who was the original owner of Orcrist?" by Dark Jackal
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TORn Amateur Symposium
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Jul 26 2013, 7:07am
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Really nice reasoning DJ!
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elaen32
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Jul 26 2013, 10:09am
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I agree - good bit of deduction! //
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noWizardme
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Jul 26 2013, 12:13pm
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I would love to find out how the swords got from Gondolin to the Trolls hoard
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DanielLB
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Jul 26 2013, 5:42pm
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UUT - mithril shirt
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Ardamírë
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Jul 26 2013, 7:01pm
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Thanks for the link Ardamire!
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 7:58pm
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Another one
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Ardamírë
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Jul 26 2013, 8:19pm
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I love this theory!
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Riven Delve
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Jul 26 2013, 8:30pm
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Isn't it great?
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Ardamírë
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Jul 26 2013, 8:39pm
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Commonality in surviving Beleriand
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 8:47pm
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Sounds like that could make for a nice speculative essay next time round, Brethil
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DanielLB
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Jul 27 2013, 3:15pm
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Its a dangerous business, posting on this forum...
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Brethil
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Jul 27 2013, 3:36pm
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Another cool idea ..
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 8:35pm
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Intriguing
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Ardamírë
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Jul 26 2013, 8:45pm
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It not only adds to the mystery
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Riven Delve
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Jul 26 2013, 10:13pm
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That's the one, thank you Ardamírë.
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DanielLB
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Jul 26 2013, 8:10pm
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Agreed
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Ardamírë
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Jul 26 2013, 8:21pm
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I wonder about this too, elaen and Daniel
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Riven Delve
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Jul 26 2013, 7:58pm
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Love the logic of your construct DarkJackal!
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:17pm
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A short but sweet paper
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Rembrethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:29pm
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Beautiful! But -
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sador
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Aug 4 2013, 10:39am
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Subthread for "The Silmarillion as Awakening to the Real World and Adulthood" by Telain
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TORn Amateur Symposium
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Jul 26 2013, 7:08am
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Loved reading this Telain
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elaen32
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Jul 26 2013, 11:01am
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Re waking & sleeping when the hobbits return to the Shire
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noWizardme
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Jul 26 2013, 12:12pm
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bring forth the "beautiful harmonic"!
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telain
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Jul 26 2013, 2:12pm
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regressing and proud of it //
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noWizardme
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Jul 26 2013, 2:51pm
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I shall regress as one of you! //
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:52pm
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Frodo's falling asleep
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:44pm
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Melian as a sleeper
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noWizardme
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Jul 26 2013, 12:18pm
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Absolutely!
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telain
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Jul 26 2013, 3:26pm
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Melian and Thingol
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:51pm
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Asleep in one's lingerie
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CuriousG
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Aug 3 2013, 9:50pm
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about Melian and the silmaril
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elostirion74
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Aug 7 2013, 7:53pm
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So many great examples in the literature
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:39pm
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Hanseol and Aretel?
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telain
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Jul 26 2013, 4:29pm
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Sleeping through the ages
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 6:28pm
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Great essay, thank you telain :-)
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DanielLB
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Jul 26 2013, 6:04pm
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I thank you! Ents and morning people...
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telain
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Jul 27 2013, 10:06pm
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Evolution of the Ents
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Brethil
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Jul 30 2013, 4:34pm
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that works for me
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telain
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Jul 30 2013, 10:53pm
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Ents and Entwives
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Brethil
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Aug 3 2013, 3:44pm
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ents, elves and eriador
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telain
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Aug 7 2013, 1:27pm
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Absolutely relevant (and thanks again for that recc!)
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Brethil
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Aug 7 2013, 5:17pm
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Of hiding
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CuriousG
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Aug 3 2013, 9:42pm
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Great points on the Elf strongholds CG
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Brethil
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Aug 3 2013, 10:35pm
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"Dead they looked, and yet it was not so ... Asleep they were."
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squire
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Aug 4 2013, 2:49am
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Another Tolkien theme coming into view?
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noWizardme
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Aug 4 2013, 9:03pm
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Oog
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squire
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Aug 5 2013, 12:13am
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I agree - caution needed about Good and Evil (with caps)
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noWizardme
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Aug 5 2013, 6:47am
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Haemorrheges shrinking without surgery, and the like. //
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sador
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Aug 5 2013, 7:53am
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not hiding, just on the road...
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telain
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Aug 7 2013, 1:40pm
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I finally got to read this.
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sador
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Aug 4 2013, 10:30am
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and I am finally getting to answer!
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telain
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Aug 7 2013, 9:40pm
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One of my favorite Tolkien lines, on this
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squire
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Aug 8 2013, 1:09am
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oh, nice quote
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telain
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Aug 9 2013, 10:00pm
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