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Brethil
Half-elven
Jul 26 2013, 6:28pm
Views: 1358
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Sorry... couldn't resist the wordplay! No apologies - that's what we do here! ... and it helps that Eol was out galavanting with dwarves... But you wouldn't see the value in that, would you? I can maybe see doing that for a day, or two...or a couple of decades. Maybe. Denethor, Numenoreans and ancestor-worship! Great one. Let sleeping kings lie! Have you or anyone else read Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence? As I read your reference to the sleeping kings, I was instantly reminded that in Cooper's books one of the main goals of the Light is to Wake the Sleepers (knights) so that they can rise against the Dark in the one big final battle. Hmmm. Sound familiar? Cooper draws on Arthurian legend as well as Celtic (esp. Welsh)-- as does Tolkien--so it's not too strange that they should be similar in theme, if not in tone or complexity. I think we have a lot of ancient references to draw upon here. Arthur springs right to mind (but I think JRRT had a profound dissatisfaction with Arthur's return in the context of his own legendarium - he mentions the difficulty in Letter #154 [I think that's the one] which may be why he abandoned Fall). We have the tales of both Snow White and Sleeping Beauty: both 'asleep' (one physically/spiritually, one lost in the woods with Dwarves. Which sounds fine by me, thank you very much) and 'awakened' with true love's kiss by the Prince in their tale. I think these tales have evolved: from older versions which perhaps were addressing the line between Seen/Unseen and Life/Death metaphors, to more socially symbolic and cautionary tales in the light of advancing Christian mores and social change and the notions of Courtly Love. Another example could certainly be Vainamoinen (sorry I can't do all the umlauts, etc.) from the Kalevala. He is said to be the symbol of Old beliefs who sails off in his boat to 'rest' and will return when needed (interesting inversion here as an inspiration as he may represent the Pagan versus the Christian faith). In addition Bruinen (most excellently!!!) cited the Tale of King Heidrek and The Waking of Agantyr, in which Hervor 'wakes' her dead father to demand the family blade, cursed Tyrfing. JRRT was well acquainted with both the tales. In waking the sleeping knight: in context of the awakening metaphor and specifically Sil and the tale of Tyrfing, I think of Turin, waking with Anglachel when the time is right. So I think you have tapped into a very elemental factor I the telling of the tale - and in much of the Sil as his 'ancient' and Creation text. )And then we have Vlad the Impaler who is supposed to be just 'resting'. I'll skip that awakening party, thanks.) The first TORn Amateur Symposium starts this week in the Reading Room! Come and join in!
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TORn AMATEUR SYMPOSIUM Day Six- The Silmarillion topics
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TORn Amateur Symposium
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Jul 26 2013, 7:06am
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Subthread for "Who was the original owner of Orcrist?" by Dark Jackal
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TORn Amateur Symposium
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Jul 26 2013, 7:07am
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Really nice reasoning DJ!
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elaen32
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Jul 26 2013, 10:09am
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I agree - good bit of deduction! //
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noWizardme
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Jul 26 2013, 12:13pm
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I would love to find out how the swords got from Gondolin to the Trolls hoard
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DanielLB
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Jul 26 2013, 5:42pm
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UUT - mithril shirt
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Ardamírë
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Jul 26 2013, 7:01pm
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Thanks for the link Ardamire!
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 7:58pm
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Another one
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Ardamírë
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Jul 26 2013, 8:19pm
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I love this theory!
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Riven Delve
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Jul 26 2013, 8:30pm
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Isn't it great?
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Ardamírë
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Jul 26 2013, 8:39pm
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Commonality in surviving Beleriand
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 8:47pm
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Sounds like that could make for a nice speculative essay next time round, Brethil
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DanielLB
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Jul 27 2013, 3:15pm
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Its a dangerous business, posting on this forum...
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Brethil
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Jul 27 2013, 3:36pm
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Another cool idea ..
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 8:35pm
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Intriguing
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Ardamírë
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Jul 26 2013, 8:45pm
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It not only adds to the mystery
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Riven Delve
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Jul 26 2013, 10:13pm
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That's the one, thank you Ardamírë.
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DanielLB
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Jul 26 2013, 8:10pm
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Agreed
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Ardamírë
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Jul 26 2013, 8:21pm
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I wonder about this too, elaen and Daniel
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Riven Delve
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Jul 26 2013, 7:58pm
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Love the logic of your construct DarkJackal!
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:17pm
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A short but sweet paper
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Rembrethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:29pm
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Beautiful! But -
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sador
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Aug 4 2013, 10:39am
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Subthread for "The Silmarillion as Awakening to the Real World and Adulthood" by Telain
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TORn Amateur Symposium
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Jul 26 2013, 7:08am
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Loved reading this Telain
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elaen32
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Jul 26 2013, 11:01am
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Re waking & sleeping when the hobbits return to the Shire
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noWizardme
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Jul 26 2013, 12:12pm
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bring forth the "beautiful harmonic"!
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telain
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Jul 26 2013, 2:12pm
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regressing and proud of it //
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noWizardme
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Jul 26 2013, 2:51pm
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I shall regress as one of you! //
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:52pm
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Frodo's falling asleep
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:44pm
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Melian as a sleeper
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noWizardme
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Jul 26 2013, 12:18pm
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Absolutely!
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telain
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Jul 26 2013, 3:26pm
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Melian and Thingol
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:51pm
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Asleep in one's lingerie
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CuriousG
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Aug 3 2013, 9:50pm
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about Melian and the silmaril
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elostirion74
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Aug 7 2013, 7:53pm
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So many great examples in the literature
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 3:39pm
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Hanseol and Aretel?
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telain
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Jul 26 2013, 4:29pm
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Sleeping through the ages
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Brethil
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Jul 26 2013, 6:28pm
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Great essay, thank you telain :-)
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DanielLB
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Jul 26 2013, 6:04pm
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I thank you! Ents and morning people...
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telain
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Jul 27 2013, 10:06pm
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Evolution of the Ents
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Brethil
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Jul 30 2013, 4:34pm
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that works for me
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telain
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Jul 30 2013, 10:53pm
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Ents and Entwives
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Brethil
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Aug 3 2013, 3:44pm
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ents, elves and eriador
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telain
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Aug 7 2013, 1:27pm
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Absolutely relevant (and thanks again for that recc!)
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Brethil
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Aug 7 2013, 5:17pm
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Of hiding
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CuriousG
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Aug 3 2013, 9:42pm
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Great points on the Elf strongholds CG
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Brethil
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Aug 3 2013, 10:35pm
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"Dead they looked, and yet it was not so ... Asleep they were."
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squire
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Aug 4 2013, 2:49am
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Another Tolkien theme coming into view?
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noWizardme
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Aug 4 2013, 9:03pm
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Oog
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squire
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Aug 5 2013, 12:13am
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I agree - caution needed about Good and Evil (with caps)
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noWizardme
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Aug 5 2013, 6:47am
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Haemorrheges shrinking without surgery, and the like. //
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sador
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Aug 5 2013, 7:53am
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not hiding, just on the road...
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telain
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Aug 7 2013, 1:40pm
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I finally got to read this.
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sador
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Aug 4 2013, 10:30am
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and I am finally getting to answer!
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telain
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Aug 7 2013, 9:40pm
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One of my favorite Tolkien lines, on this
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squire
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Aug 8 2013, 1:09am
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oh, nice quote
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telain
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Aug 9 2013, 10:00pm
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