The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit: JRRT as always provides the answer (Michelle Johnston)

Forum Nav

TORn Nav

The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
JRRT as always provides the answer

Michelle Johnston
Rohan

Jul 22 2013, 10:50am

Views: 642
Shortcut

JRRT as always provides the answer [In reply to]	Can't Post

The root of JRRT's universal appeal is middle earth is offered to us with an utter sense of surety that whilst it is a sub created world it has legitimacy and authority which enable us to dwell inside the stories. What gives it even more legitimacy is that Tolkien viewed himself as reporting an inherent truth in the strategic sense, from which he had to identify tactically what precisely happened. The Silmarrillion never received a fixed tradition in that sense, Christopher's version was merely another possible version, The Hobbit was fixed in the early 1930's but way before Tolkien had discovered a great deal of the reality of the world Bilbo was travelling in. The one time he managed to actually report as accurately as he could the truth of middle earth is with the War Of the Ring. That's not how I see it, what I think is unimportant, it is how he saw it. It is clear from all his letters and Biography.

When PJ filmed the LOTR he made decisions which he considered necessary for film and a good deal of his reporting was accurate. Frodo and co emerge at Bree and who is to say they did not visit Bombadil it just was not reported. However I agree with all that Elizabeth has said there was some serious misreporting as well beyond cinematic taste. ( I love the films though).

When PJ began the Hobbit he knew that the Dwarves who knocked on Bilbo's door were not the Dwarves of the book they were viewed though a seven year olds lens nor could they possibly have met the Exiles of Imladris as is reported in the book. One could go on. So he has stepped in with a version of events which for some will seem more real than the book and for others not. Bilbo did go on his journey he did find the ring and he was transformed by the experience as were others who paid heavily for their journeys that is probably the only certainty.

The Hobbit is much more complex for us as a community of Tolkien lovers, it is filmed with the wisdom of hindsight that Tolkien did not have when he was writing in 1932 and inevitably is a product of now so we have more to consider. A flawed book and a flawed film, a film that is being made very similarly and yet rather differently to the earlier ones. (I love AUJ and I am genuinely excited about how they are going to add and embroider the various journeys and interactions).

Tolkien worked on his sub created world all his adult life and I have been discovering the truth of his work all my adult life and PJ only aids that journey. I am not really interested what label you put on that but I am delighted to recognise in what others say here that they are on the same journey .

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

Subject	User	Time
Will the real purist please stand up?	The Mitch King	Jul 21 2013, 7:15am
He did some things right, some wrong, in LotR.	Elizabeth	Jul 21 2013, 7:38am
Bombadil..	MouthofSauron	Jul 21 2013, 7:57am
Agreed.//	Elizabeth	Jul 21 2013, 7:59am
So what?	aarondirebear	Jul 26 2013, 2:03pm
after watching Rankin/Bass Return Of The King	Barrow-Wight	Jul 21 2013, 8:12am
I refuse to watch the Rankin/Bass for the reasons you listed	Ziggy Stardust	Jul 22 2013, 12:07am
and they also forgot	Barrow-Wight	Jul 22 2013, 12:45am
No need for me to post now.	Aunt Dora Baggins	Jul 21 2013, 8:36am
Pretty much spot on.	Bumpypotato	Jul 21 2013, 9:17am
you forgot Faramir...also,	FrogmortonJustice65	Jul 21 2013, 5:08pm
I can't speak for Elizabeth.	RosieLass	Jul 21 2013, 10:49pm
"Arwen is leaving/dying"	Elizabeth	Jul 25 2013, 7:39am
Arwen dying	Brethil	Jul 25 2013, 2:43pm
"The failing...may then be ascribed... to the evil of Arda Marred..."	Darkstone	Jul 25 2013, 2:57pm
That is what I always thought, Darkenstone and Brethil.	Rembrethil	Jul 25 2013, 3:00pm
Yes but...	Elizabeth	Jul 25 2013, 6:16pm
Yes, but I think the whole point they were making...	dormouse	Jul 25 2013, 7:32pm
Much better than the book.	Darkstone	Jul 25 2013, 7:39pm
No clue	Ardam�r�	Jul 25 2013, 8:38pm
Elrond implied her death was imminent...	Elizabeth	Jul 26 2013, 7:18am
Arwen ..Laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth	Michelle Johnston	Jul 26 2013, 3:20pm
Excellent reference - thank you Darkstone! //	Brethil	Jul 25 2013, 3:09pm
what lead	Elthir	Jul 25 2013, 5:33pm
False jeopardy arcs	Michelle Johnston	Jul 27 2013, 9:46pm
Agreed	aruman	Jul 21 2013, 9:42pm
You hit it!	Ziggy Stardust	Jul 22 2013, 12:05am
I agree with you on much of this. In a few instances I FERVENTLY AGREE. On a few other points I have some contention.	AinurOlorin	Jul 24 2013, 9:01am
It's funny you mentioned Frodo wearing pants in Cirith Ungol...	jtarkey	Jul 24 2013, 9:06am
I didn't expect full nudity. But I also thought it ridiculous to have trousers. A loincloth	AinurOlorin	Jul 24 2013, 10:05am
RE Gandalf vs. the Witch King	Elizabeth	Jul 25 2013, 7:52am
Absolutely agree. About this and the eariler "Arwen 'passing' as superflous refuse", but especially about this.	AinurOlorin	Jul 26 2013, 10:22pm
I insist on the entire Red Book-- not JRRT's shoddy abridged version.//	L. Ron Halfelven	Jul 26 2013, 4:46pm
What is a purist?	dormouse	Jul 21 2013, 8:41am
I would call myself a "Cinematic Purist"	jtarkey	Jul 21 2013, 11:33am
"Star Wars" you mean?	Inferno	Jul 21 2013, 1:51pm
Inferno, I agree with your whole post ...	Brethil	Jul 21 2013, 10:22pm
I understand Your point but Disagree	IdrilofGondolin	Jul 22 2013, 6:09pm
The interesting thing for me	Inferno	Jul 22 2013, 8:44pm
Agree about The Silmarillion	IdrilofGondolin	Jul 22 2013, 8:59pm
I have the opposite problem	malickfan	Jul 23 2013, 12:55pm
I am a book and movie fan.	Noria	Jul 23 2013, 1:31pm
Thank you for a very reasoned opinion, Inferno	g-stormcrow	Jul 23 2013, 11:13pm
I think	shadowdog	Jul 21 2013, 3:50pm
I respectfully disagree...	Morthoron	Jul 21 2013, 5:22pm
I agree with you. //	geordie	Jul 21 2013, 5:37pm
Good points	aruman	Jul 21 2013, 9:50pm
Or better yet...	Morthoron	Jul 22 2013, 12:11am
Did someone say 'XenArwen'?	Inferno	Jul 22 2013, 1:49am
Wait, has she got horns?? Or have her ears over-grown? /	Ataahua	Jul 22 2013, 2:47am
I believe those are just ridiculous-length ears. //	Inferno	Jul 22 2013, 3:39am
I do not like those categories.	Arannir	Jul 21 2013, 11:49am
AGREE	Buchanicus	Jul 22 2013, 1:31am
And it does feel like a class-system	Buchanicus	Jul 22 2013, 1:55am
Yeah, how dare they?	Inferno	Jul 22 2013, 2:00am
Haha!	Buchanicus	Jul 22 2013, 3:22am
To join the Purist Front of Judea you've got to REALLY hate the movies.//	L. Ron Halfelven	Jul 22 2013, 2:19am
I thought it was the Judean Purist Front... or was it Purists'? I'm confused!//	Arandiel	Jul 22 2013, 5:18pm
Not me.	Noria	Jul 21 2013, 12:08pm
Oh yes, I like a good deal of it!	jtarkey	Jul 21 2013, 12:11pm
Being true to a book and any book really	Welsh hero	Jul 21 2013, 4:46pm
'Real lunatics don't join them, I think'.	geordie	Jul 21 2013, 5:36pm
As the only true purist, I deplore the movie's lack of a binding.//	L. Ron Halfelven	Jul 21 2013, 8:06pm
Do you prefer leather or cloth? //	RosieLass	Jul 21 2013, 10:54pm
That, undoubtedly, is the purest bit of purism...	Morthoron	Jul 22 2013, 12:02am
And gold leaf. What happened to standards? //	Silverlode	Jul 22 2013, 2:33am
Re:	Retro315	Jul 22 2013, 2:55am
Once upon a time...	Kathuphazg�n	Jul 22 2013, 3:05am
That's a great little anecdote!	demnation	Jul 22 2013, 4:05am
Thanks for sharing that, K. And I, as a purist, proudly stand up!	Altaira	Jul 22 2013, 4:37am
Shippey's books are fantastic!	RosieLass	Jul 22 2013, 4:03pm
I think JRRT may have liked	Elenorflower	Jul 22 2013, 4:34pm
I just can't see Tolkien liking the movies either.	Noria	Jul 24 2013, 12:30pm
and some.	Michelle Johnston	Jul 24 2013, 9:43pm
Tom Shippey knows more about what JRR would dis/like than Christopher?	g-stormcrow	Jul 23 2013, 9:09pm
I don't think that's what was said	entmaiden	Jul 23 2013, 9:46pm
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what was said	g-stormcrow	Jul 23 2013, 11:00pm
YOU introduced Christopher Tolkien.	entmaiden	Jul 23 2013, 11:37pm
"Demanded" is a pretty strong word	g-stormcrow	Jul 24 2013, 4:57am
"Reasonable debate" does not include...	RosieLass	Jul 24 2013, 3:19pm
Then it was YOU with the candlestick in the kitchen who introduced Christopher Tolkien!!! GASP	g-stormcrow	Jul 24 2013, 8:00pm
Let's move on	entmaiden	Jul 24 2013, 8:21pm
If I could ask to add my opinion briefly,	GoBlue	Jul 25 2013, 2:37am
I think reading	ElendilTheShort	Jul 25 2013, 7:39am
Frankly, Jackson did much better than Zimmerman.	Elizabeth	Jul 25 2013, 8:04am
Agreed	ElendilTheShort	Jul 25 2013, 11:20am
studio claptrap	Elthir	Jul 25 2013, 2:28pm
I wouldn't call the films disastrous. Given the time alloted them, both the animated Hobbit and the	AinurOlorin	Jul 26 2013, 10:27pm
On Shippey - Well, yes and no, I think -	geordie	Jul 24 2013, 9:39am
Great story K! Glad you had that chance meeting...!	Brethil	Jul 23 2013, 10:25pm
What always amazes me about the Zimmerman letter...	Darkstone	Jul 24 2013, 2:55pm
Absolutely Darkstone!	Brethil	Jul 24 2013, 4:59pm
Assuming Tom Shippey even exists and you're not just making him up ;-).....	L. Ron Halfelven	Jul 24 2013, 1:48pm
For what it's worth -	geordie	Jul 24 2013, 2:38pm
Powerful subjects: religion and politics...	Brethil	Jul 24 2013, 8:17pm
Thank you for sharing the very charming personal anecdote.	Darkstone	Jul 24 2013, 2:42pm
JRRT as always provides the answer	Michelle Johnston	Jul 22 2013, 10:50am
I was once a purist	Werde Spinner	Jul 22 2013, 8:26pm
well	elostirion74	Jul 23 2013, 2:43pm
PJ's interpretation of AUJ turned me into a book purist	Faenoriel	Jul 23 2013, 8:01pm
Me, I was harsh with LOTR trilogy, now I am pleased with The Hobbit	Marionette	Jul 24 2013, 7:30pm
Purist is a badge of honor	aarondirebear	Jul 26 2013, 2:00pm
Purism?	Elthir	Jul 26 2013, 4:28pm
Faithfull translation	ElendilTheShort	Jul 26 2013, 9:26pm
And the 'little' things	Elthir	Jul 27 2013, 12:56am
As wrong as Gandalfs death speech is	ElendilTheShort	Jul 27 2013, 10:07am
next stop: Mandos	Elthir	Jul 27 2013, 2:20pm
Is it too late to walk into this thread and declare I am the real purist?	DanielLB	Jul 26 2013, 3:57pm
Hilarious ROFLOL!!!	Rembrethil	Jul 26 2013, 4:10pm
"Bow"? Okay. (mutters where's my violin...?)	Brethil	Jul 26 2013, 4:15pm

Search for (options)

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net