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Brethil
Half-elven
May 28 2013, 12:53am
Views: 1693
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Ulmo has a vested interest in preserving Gondolin: but clearly he can see its end - and thus implying that he forsees the end of Nargothrond as well. Is there a common purpose uniting these two strongholds, for the future and hopes of Middle Earth, deeper than just defense? Well, he did send Arminas and Gelmir to warn Orodreth. Regarding Gondolin, there was clearly a Plan - involving Tuor and Earendil. I am not quite sure of Nagothrond. Agreed Sador! My instinct says Nargothrond was to preserved Finrod at the ready for service later on... Trying his best; but trusting an Elf - that's a bit too much even for him. Ulmo seems to function very well when left to his own devices, doesn't he? You mean, when acting behind the backs of the other Valar? Yes. Haha! That's great Sador!!!!! "Their swords and their counsels shall have two edges." Despite Melian's words, Thingol is *STILL* not forewarned. Why is Thingol so...for lack of a better word...dense? What else should he have done? Marched against them? I don't know if anything that extreme...it just seems odd he doesn't taker her more seriously. Especially since he is a bit suspicious to start with in general. And that Melian simply accepts this statement with the comment above...? That's one thing I don't quite like in Tolkien's work on the Silmarillion in the early 1950s - he gave Melian all those wise-with-Tolkien's-hindsight lines to declaim. Probably once his view of the Maiar became rather more exalted than when they were mere "fays" or minor spirits, he felt she must have been really wise. So he gave her all these lines, making her sound like a Greek chorus, worse, like a Cassandra who was never heeded - making Thingol look a fool and her a discontented wife (which actually makes her seem less the wise for marrying him in the first place). This is a really great set of points. I know what you mean - and overall indeed makes one question her wisdom in marrying Thingol, and make it seem more like a rather teenage or rebellious (perhaps?) thing to do. Wait? What? Is it the time to 'no longer speak' of these things - ummm, like 'looming destruction'? The line you quoted has nothing to say about the sons of Feanor, you know. And she is wrong - as one Silmaril will come, even to Doriath itself, before those battles. I think my surprise was about how casual they both are about the dangers looming ahead. Banning the melodic Quenya tongue and branding it criminal in Doriath: an act of pique, or something with deeper, divisive political implications? Just one of the things Tolkien would love! But wars against language did occur in ancient times; and yes, it is a clear way to separate peoples. Yes, and as a philologist I think an assault on language would have special meaning to him. Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Silmarillion Chapter 15: Of the Noldor in Beleriand
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Brethil
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May 26 2013, 10:16am
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a (few) early thoughts
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telain
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May 27 2013, 12:19am
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The Cold War in Beleriand
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noWizardme
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May 27 2013, 9:23am
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Disappearing Elves
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CuriousG
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May 27 2013, 7:10pm
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More Elf circus acts....
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Brethil
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May 28 2013, 1:11am
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Love your Cold War analogies Furuncurunir
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Brethil
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May 28 2013, 12:41am
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I like the comparison to the Cold War
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telain
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May 28 2013, 2:58pm
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Cold War and uneasiness: a reader poll
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CuriousG
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Jun 4 2013, 11:58am
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Prophecies and people
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CuriousG
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May 27 2013, 7:01pm
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Maybe vague, but maybe not unwise...
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telain
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May 28 2013, 5:45pm
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Yes
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sador
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May 28 2013, 5:52pm
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ulmo, foresight, vagueness, and thorin seaweedshield
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Maciliel
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May 28 2013, 8:15pm
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Thorin Seaweedshield...
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Brethil
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May 28 2013, 11:42pm
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Prophecies with wiggle room - love it
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noWizardme
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May 29 2013, 1:44pm
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Have been looking forward to posting back!
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Brethil
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May 28 2013, 12:29am
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Answers
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sador
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May 27 2013, 2:44pm
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Everybody loves Finrod
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CuriousG
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May 27 2013, 7:22pm
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Thoughts in response Sador
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Brethil
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May 28 2013, 12:53am
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Of Gondolin and random chapters
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CuriousG
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May 27 2013, 5:58pm
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Some ideas back at you CG!
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Brethil
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May 28 2013, 1:04am
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Bombshell
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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May 28 2013, 1:22am
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Excellent point by CG
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Brethil
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May 28 2013, 1:51am
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Not really
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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May 28 2013, 2:29am
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I do think your guess is probably right...
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Brethil
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May 28 2013, 2:41am
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It's ironic
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CuriousG
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May 28 2013, 3:08am
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And Unfinished Tales, page 32:
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sador
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May 28 2013, 3:04am
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That part is pure Tolkien
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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May 28 2013, 3:57am
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Gnomes?
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noWizardme
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May 28 2013, 10:48am
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"Gnomes" was Tolkien's early name for the Noldor
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sador
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May 28 2013, 11:53am
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Gnomes = Noldor. Thanks. Now trying to imagine Elrond as a garden ornament, with wheelbarrow or fishing rod... //
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noWizardme
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May 28 2013, 12:26pm
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You've thought up a whole new line of Tolkien merchandise. //
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CuriousG
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May 28 2013, 1:00pm
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He never completely rejected the idea
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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May 28 2013, 12:50pm
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Spoilsport!
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sador
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May 28 2013, 1:06pm
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Sorry //
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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May 28 2013, 1:28pm
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Of dirty secrets and politics
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CuriousG
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May 27 2013, 6:41pm
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Hmmm - about that foresight bit....(good question...)
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Brethil
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May 28 2013, 4:07am
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Ulmo's competence and maturity makes the rest of the Valar look bad...
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Faenoriel
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Jun 3 2013, 12:57am
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Oops!
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Brethil
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Jun 3 2013, 1:24am
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Welcome back!
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sador
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Jun 3 2013, 7:16am
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Welcome back, Faenoriel!!
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Ardamírë
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Jun 3 2013, 2:28pm
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There's a listing of the early discussion threads...
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noWizardme
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Jun 3 2013, 3:59pm
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One big question is
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CuriousG
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Jun 4 2013, 2:07pm
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Would love some more stories...
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Brethil
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Jun 4 2013, 5:48pm
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sounds like possible Symposium topics to me!
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telain
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Jun 4 2013, 11:34pm
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Those looming Indexes...
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Brethil
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Jun 5 2013, 12:11am
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