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Thoughts in response Sador

Brethil
Half-elven


May 28 2013, 12:53am


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Thoughts in response Sador [In reply to] Can't Post


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Ulmo has a vested interest in preserving Gondolin: but clearly he can see its end - and thus implying that he forsees the end of Nargothrond as well. Is there a common purpose uniting these two strongholds, for the future and hopes of Middle Earth, deeper than just defense?
Well, he did send Arminas and Gelmir to warn Orodreth. Regarding Gondolin, there was clearly a Plan - involving Tuor and Earendil. I am not quite sure of Nagothrond. Agreed Sador! My instinct says Nargothrond was to preserved Finrod at the ready for service later on...
Trying his best; but trusting an Elf - that's a bit too much even for him. Ulmo seems to function very well when left to his own devices, doesn't he?
You mean, when acting behind the backs of the other Valar? Yes. SmileWinkSmile Haha! That's great Sador!!!!!

"Their swords and their counsels shall have two edges." Despite Melian's words, Thingol is *STILL* not forewarned. Why is Thingol so...for lack of a better word...dense?
What else should he have done? Marched against them? I don't know if anything that extreme...it just seems odd he doesn't taker her more seriously. Especially since he is a bit suspicious to start with in general.
And that Melian simply accepts this statement with the comment above...?
That's one thing I don't quite like in Tolkien's work on the Silmarillion in the early 1950s - he gave Melian all those wise-with-Tolkien's-hindsight lines to declaim. Probably once his view of the Maiar became rather more exalted than when they were mere "fays" or minor spirits, he felt she must have been really wise. So he gave her all these lines, making her sound like a Greek chorus, worse, like a Cassandra who was never heeded - making Thingol look a fool and her a discontented wife (which actually makes her seem less the wise for marrying him in the first place). This is a really great set of points. I know what you mean - and overall indeed makes one question her wisdom in marrying Thingol, and make it seem more like a rather teenage or rebellious (perhaps?) thing to do.

Wait? What? Is it the time to 'no longer speak' of these things - ummm, like 'looming destruction'?
The line you quoted has nothing to say about the sons of Feanor, you know. And she is wrong - as one Silmaril will come, even to Doriath itself, before those battles. I think my surprise was about how casual they both are about the dangers looming ahead.

Banning the melodic Quenya tongue and branding it criminal in Doriath: an act of pique, or something with deeper, divisive political implications?
Just one of the things Tolkien would love!
But wars against language did occur in ancient times; and yes, it is a clear way to separate peoples.
Yes, and as a philologist I think an assault on language would have special meaning to him.


Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."

Subject User Time
Silmarillion Chapter 15: Of the Noldor in Beleriand Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 26 2013, 10:16am
    a (few) early thoughts telain Send a private message to telain May 27 2013, 12:19am
        The Cold War in Beleriand noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme May 27 2013, 9:23am
            Disappearing Elves CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 27 2013, 7:10pm
                More Elf circus acts.... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 28 2013, 1:11am
            Love your Cold War analogies Furuncurunir Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 28 2013, 12:41am
            I like the comparison to the Cold War telain Send a private message to telain May 28 2013, 2:58pm
                Cold War and uneasiness: a reader poll CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 4 2013, 11:58am
        Prophecies and people CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 27 2013, 7:01pm
            Maybe vague, but maybe not unwise... telain Send a private message to telain May 28 2013, 5:45pm
                Yes sador Send a private message to sador May 28 2013, 5:52pm
            ulmo, foresight, vagueness, and thorin seaweedshield Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 28 2013, 8:15pm
                Thorin Seaweedshield... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 28 2013, 11:42pm
                    Prophecies with wiggle room - love it noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme May 29 2013, 1:44pm
        Have been looking forward to posting back! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 28 2013, 12:29am
    Answers sador Send a private message to sador May 27 2013, 2:44pm
        Everybody loves Finrod CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 27 2013, 7:22pm
        Thoughts in response Sador Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 28 2013, 12:53am
    Of Gondolin and random chapters CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 27 2013, 5:58pm
        Some ideas back at you CG! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 28 2013, 1:04am
        Bombshell Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful May 28 2013, 1:22am
            Excellent point by CG Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 28 2013, 1:51am
                Not really Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful May 28 2013, 2:29am
                    I do think your guess is probably right... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 28 2013, 2:41am
                        It's ironic CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 28 2013, 3:08am
            And Unfinished Tales, page 32: sador Send a private message to sador May 28 2013, 3:04am
                That part is pure Tolkien Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful May 28 2013, 3:57am
            Gnomes? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme May 28 2013, 10:48am
                "Gnomes" was Tolkien's early name for the Noldor sador Send a private message to sador May 28 2013, 11:53am
                    Gnomes = Noldor. Thanks. Now trying to imagine Elrond as a garden ornament, with wheelbarrow or fishing rod... // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme May 28 2013, 12:26pm
                        You've thought up a whole new line of Tolkien merchandise. // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 28 2013, 1:00pm
                    He never completely rejected the idea Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful May 28 2013, 12:50pm
                        Spoilsport! sador Send a private message to sador May 28 2013, 1:06pm
                            Sorry // Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful May 28 2013, 1:28pm
    Of dirty secrets and politics CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 27 2013, 6:41pm
        Hmmm - about that foresight bit....(good question...) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 28 2013, 4:07am
    Ulmo's competence and maturity makes the rest of the Valar look bad... Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Jun 3 2013, 12:57am
        Oops! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 3 2013, 1:24am
        Welcome back! sador Send a private message to sador Jun 3 2013, 7:16am
        Welcome back, Faenoriel!! Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jun 3 2013, 2:28pm
        There's a listing of the early discussion threads... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 3 2013, 3:59pm
    One big question is CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 4 2013, 2:07pm
        Would love some more stories... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 4 2013, 5:48pm
            sounds like possible Symposium topics to me! telain Send a private message to telain Jun 4 2013, 11:34pm
                Those looming Indexes... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 5 2013, 12:11am

 
 
 

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