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Smeagol Bagginsess
Rivendell
Apr 27 2013, 5:07am
Views: 250
Shortcut
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“For me perhaps the most tragic moment in the Tale comes when Sam fails to note the complete change in Gollum’s tone and aspect….His (Gollum’s) repentance is blighted and all Frodo’s pity is (in a sense) wasted. Shelob’s lair becomes inevitable” Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #246 Well, it does seem that he is blaming Sam for not noticing Gollum's soft reaction. Also, "The blighting of Gollum's repentance was due to the logic of the story. If it had happened the entry into Mordor and the struggle to reach Mount Doom would have been different, with the reader's interest shifted to Gollum. I think between repentance and love for Frodo on one hand and the Ring on the other, Gollum would have tried to satisfy both in some queer twisted and pitiable way. He would have stolen or used violence to take the Ring, but having satisfied "possession" he would then for Frodo’s sake have voluntarily cast himself into the fire. The effect of a partial regeneration by love would have given Gollum a clearer vision when he claimed the Ring. He would have perceived Sauron's evil, realized that he did not have the power to use it in Sauron's despite, and realized that the only way to hurt Sauron would have been to destroy the Ring and himself – which would also be the greatest service to Frodo." Letters of J.R.R> Tolkien, Letter # 246 It seems, at least JRRT thought that Smeagol could have been a tragic hero. But of course, that's what his works are. Everyone can have different opinions and I don't mind that at all.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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What exactly is Tom Bombadil?
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FlamingDovahkiin
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Apr 20 2013, 12:00am
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Not perhaps a loose end - but he did leave an intentional enigma!
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Brethil
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Apr 20 2013, 12:15am
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Tom is awesome.
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 12:19am
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Yes - But I'm not one for mystery
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FlamingDovahkiin
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Apr 20 2013, 1:36pm
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I'd rather they leave out
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 4:06pm
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I agree.
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FlamingDovahkiin
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Apr 20 2013, 4:52pm
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So how far are you now?
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 6:51pm
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I like Tom in the book
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Brethil
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Apr 20 2013, 4:58pm
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Tom on film.
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 6:53pm
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Page 175
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FlamingDovahkiin
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Apr 20 2013, 8:57pm
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Bored of the Rings
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CuriousG
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Apr 20 2013, 9:36pm
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LOL!
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FlamingDovahkiin
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Apr 20 2013, 9:39pm
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No, but they're incredibly obnoxious twins who repeat each other
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CuriousG
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Apr 20 2013, 9:51pm
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I'd never be able to read that
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 9:51pm
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I know many fans hate that book
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CuriousG
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Apr 20 2013, 9:56pm
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Frodo a hero?
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 10:52pm
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I'm not a scholar either
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CuriousG
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Apr 21 2013, 12:03am
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Shades of Heros
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Ardamírë
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Apr 21 2013, 12:58am
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Excellent point
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CuriousG
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Apr 21 2013, 1:25am
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Gollum
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Ardamírë
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Apr 21 2013, 2:18am
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And a nice intervention for their friendship
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CuriousG
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Apr 21 2013, 2:26am
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Agreed, great point.
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Ardamírë
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Apr 21 2013, 2:36am
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That's a plausible scenario
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CuriousG
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Apr 21 2013, 3:01am
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I love tragedies
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Ardamírë
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Apr 21 2013, 3:06am
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Gollum can be said to be one of the tragic heroes.
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Smeagol Bagginsess
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Apr 21 2013, 8:32pm
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Gollum as hero
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CuriousG
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Apr 21 2013, 9:39pm
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i don't think gollum is classifiable as a tragic hero
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Maciliel
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Apr 21 2013, 9:46pm
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Great analysis.
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Ardamírë
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Apr 21 2013, 9:47pm
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Thanks everyone for the welcome.
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Smeagol Bagginsess
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Apr 22 2013, 12:30pm
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Ok, how did this get here?
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FlamingDovahkiin
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Apr 22 2013, 3:18pm
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if
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Maciliel
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Apr 22 2013, 5:13pm
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Thanks.
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FlamingDovahkiin
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Apr 22 2013, 5:47pm
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Your English
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Ardamírë
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Apr 22 2013, 10:42pm
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Frodo vs Gollum resisting
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Brethil
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Apr 23 2013, 1:32am
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Frodo & Mordor
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Ardamírë
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Apr 23 2013, 4:26pm
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Okay, let me put it this way.
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Smeagol Bagginsess
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Apr 24 2013, 5:23pm
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I appreciate that distinction
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CuriousG
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Apr 24 2013, 5:50pm
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Sam's role in Gollum's villainy
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Ardamírë
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Apr 24 2013, 8:37pm
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Well
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Darkstone
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Apr 24 2013, 8:52pm
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They needed to use "I statements" with Gollum
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CuriousG
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Apr 24 2013, 9:18pm
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maybe something like..
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Maciliel
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Apr 24 2013, 9:26pm
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What's the logic behind those?
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CuriousG
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Apr 24 2013, 9:46pm
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Depends on the level of addiction
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elaen32
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Apr 24 2013, 10:02pm
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Explosive personalities
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CuriousG
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Apr 24 2013, 10:26pm
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hah! lmdao!
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Maciliel
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Apr 24 2013, 10:02pm
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also, i wish to say
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Maciliel
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Apr 24 2013, 10:05pm
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Yes, re-reading my own statements
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CuriousG
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Apr 24 2013, 10:16pm
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agreed //
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Maciliel
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Apr 24 2013, 10:21pm
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The discussion is fine.
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Ataahua
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Apr 24 2013, 10:58pm
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also want to add...
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Maciliel
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Apr 24 2013, 10:46pm
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Well, here's the passage
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Smeagol Bagginsess
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Apr 25 2013, 10:51am
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Not Sam's fault
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Ardamírë
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Apr 25 2013, 6:29pm
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Somewhere in between, for me
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CuriousG
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Apr 25 2013, 6:59pm
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I can't agree
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Ardamírë
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Apr 26 2013, 8:37pm
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I never said it was Sam's fault.
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Smeagol Bagginsess
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Apr 25 2013, 7:12pm
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We're so opposite on this
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Ardamírë
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Apr 26 2013, 8:43pm
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From J.R.R.T's letters:
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Smeagol Bagginsess
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Apr 27 2013, 5:07am
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Different strokes for different folks.
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Ardamírë
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Apr 27 2013, 6:43pm
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Love your post Smeagol Bagginses!
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Brethil
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Apr 22 2013, 12:39am
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i actually think the entire fellowship are heroes
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Maciliel
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Apr 21 2013, 9:42pm
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Agreed
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Ardamírë
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Apr 21 2013, 9:59pm
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yes, different shades
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Maciliel
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Apr 21 2013, 10:01pm
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Well, would you love
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CuriousG
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Apr 21 2013, 11:30pm
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(musical chortle cascading through my house)
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Maciliel
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Apr 21 2013, 11:50pm
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It appears you love green eggs more than Sam. What about ham? //
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CuriousG
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Apr 21 2013, 11:55pm
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maciliel and green eggs and ham
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Maciliel
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Apr 22 2013, 12:49am
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LOL! Thanks for the chuckles. //
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CuriousG
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Apr 22 2013, 1:07am
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Speaking of Tolkien and Dr. Seuss...
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dernwyn
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Apr 23 2013, 12:52am
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superbity!
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Maciliel
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Apr 23 2013, 1:44am
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Fantastic to read
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Brethil
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Apr 23 2013, 1:58am
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Fascinating! Thanks, Dernwyn. //
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CuriousG
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Apr 23 2013, 12:42pm
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Doesn't this almost sound like a joke?
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CuriousG
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Apr 23 2013, 1:19pm
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The prejudice of every story seems to be
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CuriousG
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Apr 21 2013, 11:40pm
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One of my favorite chapters...
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Ardamírë
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Apr 22 2013, 10:02pm
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Actually...it's squire's turn for the next chapter.
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dernwyn
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Apr 21 2013, 12:01am
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Schlob's Lair...(**heehee**)
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Brethil
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Apr 21 2013, 12:23am
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Mental picture
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 9:50pm
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I'm not quite sure...
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FlamingDovahkiin
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Apr 20 2013, 10:55pm
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I'm not sure what to think of this...
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FlamingDovahkiin
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Apr 20 2013, 11:18pm
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Games and FOTR sounds awesome...
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Brethil
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Apr 20 2013, 11:21pm
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Yes, feel free to share your thoughts & questions as you go along
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CuriousG
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Apr 20 2013, 11:28pm
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I'll never forget...
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 11:53pm
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Thanks
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FlamingDovahkiin
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Apr 21 2013, 12:08am
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There was a poll and game discussion here
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CuriousG
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Apr 21 2013, 12:31am
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Strider
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 11:52pm
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Sweet blossom come on, under the willow
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squire
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Apr 20 2013, 10:41pm
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Lets not give away too much of the storyline!
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Luinnár
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Apr 20 2013, 1:45pm
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They've seen the film
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 4:04pm
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I'm afraid the only answer we ever get is Goldberry's
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CuriousG
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Apr 20 2013, 12:55am
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River-daughter
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 1:52am
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I think
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CuriousG
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Apr 20 2013, 3:24am
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But what is the water-nymph?
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Ardamírë
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Apr 20 2013, 3:59am
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One does not simply classify Tom Bombadil :) //
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cats16
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Apr 20 2013, 9:31pm
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Regarding Tom Bombadil's indentity the following links hould be of interest to you
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malickfan
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Apr 22 2013, 10:38am
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Wow, that's a few links.
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FlamingDovahkiin
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Apr 22 2013, 12:14pm
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Be aware
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squire
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Apr 22 2013, 6:00pm
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If you can answer this question
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Finwe
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Apr 22 2013, 2:22pm
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I also love the mystery of Bombadil
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ltnjmy
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Apr 23 2013, 8:44pm
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i don't think in actuality ...
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Maciliel
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Apr 23 2013, 9:14pm
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A Marty Stu
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Darkstone
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Apr 23 2013, 9:41pm
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I forgot about this interpretation
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Ardamírë
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Apr 23 2013, 10:09pm
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Or a manifestation of the Burkean Sublime
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Darkstone
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May 1 2013, 9:07pm
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What is Tom Bombadil? An humble idea.
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Aragalen the Green
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Apr 30 2013, 11:32pm
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I think it's a great statement, not rambly at all
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CuriousG
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May 1 2013, 12:23am
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Power in his songs
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Aragalen the Green
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May 2 2013, 4:40pm
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funny you should mention this
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Maciliel
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May 1 2013, 11:47am
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I don't think...
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Ardamírë
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May 1 2013, 1:59pm
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True, but
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CuriousG
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May 1 2013, 6:17pm
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I think he has chosen his space
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Brethil
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May 1 2013, 6:32pm
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That's a great observation
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CuriousG
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May 1 2013, 8:04pm
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I agree with you.
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Aragalen the Green
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May 2 2013, 4:39pm
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