Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Melkor Choice and naivete of the Valar

Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 17 2013, 1:38am


Views: 572
Shortcut
Melkor Choice and naivete of the Valar [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


However, most of us also thought that leaving him alone to "gnaw the ends of his old plots" was probably the wrong move. Since many of the Valar did not live extensively with the creatures of Middle-earth (sullied by Melkor), they simply had no way of understanding him or his intentions (save Ulmo and Tulkas, apparently). This I find really fascinating! I have always envisioned the Valar as so knowing, so capable, but now I have a sense that many/most of them at this noontide of Valinor were perhaps a bit naive. Anyone else think so?

I also think it is interesting that Melkor really was the instrument of his own downfall. He allowed a reprimand for playing the Music out of tune and a dismissal from Varda cloud his vision of who he was -- a rather supreme being, and surely one capable of making the right decision... which leads me to bring up one of the newer posts about the Fate of Men...

Is Melkor some extraordinary example of the choice humans face in Tolkien's Middle-earth (i.e., to be "evil")? Is this part of Eru's plan all along? (If so, how?)


I think Telain you have stated it perfectly, "naive" being an ideal word. It implies perhaps their lack of experience outside of the Blessed Realm, with negativity, and as being the 'first Children' of an all-knowing being. Ulmo and Tulkas seem a bit more hardened by life in Arda, and also by their individual natures.
I do believe that Melkor is an extreme example of choice in Tolkien's model. Melkor who, with the small withdrawal of blessing (a reprimand) did not adequately appreciate the rest that he had, and chose to recover that dignity with resentment, then anger and then envy. I think though that as the Valar will always function within the Song and yet have free will, it is not Eru's "plan" (which implies control) but it certainly does not take him by surprise. He might not want the darkest notes to come to life, but on some level Eru is prepared. Why have these rogue notes at all? I think because in the long life of the First Song ultimately his will and design will come about regardless; and (speculating here) perhaps darker notes bring about the rise of light and heroic notes (ie: would we have Aragorn without Sauron?) I think free will is more valuable to Eru than a "flat" song and a "flat" world.

Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.

Subject User Time
Silmarilion Discussion, Chapter 6: "...and the Unchaining of Melkor" 2 of 2 telain Send a private message to telain Mar 11 2013, 4:42pm
    Unleashing the beast CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Mar 13 2013, 5:55pm
        how well do we really know Melkor? telain Send a private message to telain Mar 16 2013, 11:02pm
            Melkor Choice and naivete of the Valar Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 17 2013, 1:38am
                Melkor's dark music and Nienna's healing telain Send a private message to telain Mar 17 2013, 11:34pm
                    Pride and pity CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Mar 18 2013, 12:49am
                        I get your thoughts CG! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 18 2013, 1:19am
                    Some thoughts on Nienna and Olorin and pity Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 18 2013, 1:12am
                        I'm always learning something new here CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Mar 18 2013, 2:04am
                            Clueless? Hardly! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 18 2013, 3:15am
    My thoughts Finwe Send a private message to Finwe Mar 14 2013, 7:07pm
        how did Aule get in this chapter? Oh, yes... telain Send a private message to telain Mar 16 2013, 11:39pm
            The whole "Knowledge- good or bad?" question elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Mar 17 2013, 10:28am
    my thoughts Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Mar 16 2013, 12:30am
        Free will Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Mar 16 2013, 4:40am
            then how does this apply to the gift of men? Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Mar 16 2013, 11:09am
                It's not easy for us Mortals to see it as a gift, is it? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 3:45pm
                    as you've described it.. Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Mar 16 2013, 4:06pm
                        Scratching head, flipping though text- Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 4:49pm
                            I think the "gift" is not connected to "free will". Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Mar 16 2013, 9:40pm
                                Did not intend to imply control Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 10:13pm
        Feanor is a pit of smouldering coals... telain Send a private message to telain Mar 16 2013, 11:52pm
    Hello all, my first post about Sil, but I have been following :) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 2:01am
    Late answers sador Send a private message to sador Mar 18 2013, 7:35am

 
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.