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how did Aule get in this chapter? Oh, yes...

telain
Rohan

Mar 16 2013, 11:39pm


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how did Aule get in this chapter? Oh, yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

The last chapter discussion I led (Of Aule and Yavanna) I described Aule as: "...the introverted, focused, absent-minded scientist. He doesn't realize that creating his own race of beings might cause problems, and he doesn't get the the not-so-subtle verbal cues from Yavanna."

So, when I saw this:

Quote
It's no coincidence that Sauron and the Noldor, some the biggest troublemakers in the history of Arda, are closely tied to Aule.


...it rang a rather not-too-distant bell. I am reminded of modern, real-world scientists who work alone in their laboratories, discovering things that eventually lead to, oh, I don't know, atomic weaponry or biochemical warfare, or something else equally awful. Are the scientists to blame? Many think not, probably just as many think so ("They should know these things could be used for evil purposes!") Of course I know Tolkien was not interested in allegory, but I find it hard not to draw connections between modern science/invention, Aule, and "bad things happening". Aule is "of the Music", so invention and craft themselves are not inherently devious, but just what level of invention, technology, or knowledge was alright? And do we blame Aule, or just those who misuse his crafts?

In that same chapter, Aule creates the dwarves and nearly destroys them because he realizes they were not in Eru's plan. Here is where I see the difference between admiration and envy. Aule admired the idea of Eru's children (incidentally, so he could teach his craft to them -- Now, are we counting the dwarves as some of the biggest troublemakers? There may be scope to do that...), but Eru reprimanded him, he would rather destroy them than keep them -- so the desire to possess I think has a part in envy, as many of you have pointed out. I cannot see Melkor destroying his creations just to appease Eru (or certainly not without significant retribution!)

Subject User Time
Silmarilion Discussion, Chapter 6: "...and the Unchaining of Melkor" 2 of 2 telain Send a private message to telain Mar 11 2013, 4:42pm
    Unleashing the beast CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Mar 13 2013, 5:55pm
        how well do we really know Melkor? telain Send a private message to telain Mar 16 2013, 11:02pm
            Melkor Choice and naivete of the Valar Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 17 2013, 1:38am
                Melkor's dark music and Nienna's healing telain Send a private message to telain Mar 17 2013, 11:34pm
                    Pride and pity CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Mar 18 2013, 12:49am
                        I get your thoughts CG! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 18 2013, 1:19am
                    Some thoughts on Nienna and Olorin and pity Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 18 2013, 1:12am
                        I'm always learning something new here CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Mar 18 2013, 2:04am
                            Clueless? Hardly! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 18 2013, 3:15am
    My thoughts Finwe Send a private message to Finwe Mar 14 2013, 7:07pm
        how did Aule get in this chapter? Oh, yes... telain Send a private message to telain Mar 16 2013, 11:39pm
            The whole "Knowledge- good or bad?" question elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Mar 17 2013, 10:28am
    my thoughts Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Mar 16 2013, 12:30am
        Free will Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Mar 16 2013, 4:40am
            then how does this apply to the gift of men? Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Mar 16 2013, 11:09am
                It's not easy for us Mortals to see it as a gift, is it? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 3:45pm
                    as you've described it.. Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Mar 16 2013, 4:06pm
                        Scratching head, flipping though text- Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 4:49pm
                            I think the "gift" is not connected to "free will". Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Mar 16 2013, 9:40pm
                                Did not intend to imply control Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 10:13pm
        Feanor is a pit of smouldering coals... telain Send a private message to telain Mar 16 2013, 11:52pm
    Hello all, my first post about Sil, but I have been following :) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 2:01am
    Late answers sador Send a private message to sador Mar 18 2013, 7:35am

 
 
 

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