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My thoughts

Finwe
Lorien


Mar 14 2013, 7:07pm


Views: 711
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My thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Melkor was kept chained in the halls of Mandos, and in solitary confinement. What do you imagine that was like? Personally, sounds awful to me, but I would imagine it didn't faze Melkor too much. He's used to being alone after all the time he spend in the Void searching for the Flame Imperishable. I hate to reference a future event, but I can't help myself here. When you think about it, he spends the vast majority of the First Age confined to the deepest pit of his own fortress.

2. The Valar apprently believed in punishment rather than reform; would a different approach have made any difference? Were the Valar capable of "capital punishment"? Would another more reform-minded approach worked, or was Melkor beyond help? I don't know if they necessarily favored punishment over reform. The text states the Valar are unable to comprehend evil, hence they seem to be incapable of reforming Melkor without the necessary understanding. They probably intended his confinement to achieve reform. Irregardless, I believe Melkor was a hopeless case. I really have no idea whether the Valar would have executed Melkor or anyone else give the chance. Would Saruman's spirit being blown away count? I would think that only Eru possessed the ability to destroy one of the Ainur, but I could be wrong.

3. Why does Nienna aid Melkor in this way?
It was her nature. She couldn't help but take pity in everyone and everything. That is the part of Eru's mind she most understood. She didn't understand evil enough to know that Melkor was a lost cause.

4. We have seen so far in The Silmarilion that Mandos can be maddeningly vague -- why does he choose to say nothing now? Does he think he's offering a not-so-subtle hint, or does he actually not know what Melkor is up to? Great question for which I really haven't got a great answer.

5. Is Tolkien suggesting (like many modern crime dramas and police procedurals) that one must know -- or be -- a little evil in order to recognize it? What does this say about Ulmo, Tulkas, and the Vanyar (or is suspicion something else entirely?) Why do they suspect Melkor of deceit? I think there is a difference between recognizing something and understanding it. I suspect Ulmo and Tulkas simply hate Melkor for what he has done and have no desire to see him rejoin their ranks. Manwe, as the brother of Melkor and leader of the Valar, would prefer to see Melkor reformed. The Vanyar have only known Melkor as an evil tyrant who hunted them at Cuivienen, not as the once mightiest of the Ainur of Eru. They have no evidence to suggest he ever had any good within him to begin with.

6. Melkor's evil seems to stem from envy -- what is the difference between envy and admiration? How does envy become so negatively charged and why does it inherently spell doom in this story (and many, many others)? I'm sure others will be able to more eloquently state the differences, but to me admiration implies a unequivocal love of a person, place, object, accomplishment, etc. without strings attached. Envy implies a desire to possess. Coveting thy neighbors goods leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

7. Without staying too far into future chapters, why does Melkor take credit for Feanor? Why doesn't Feanor protest? I think he's attempting to bait the hook for Feanor. Feanor probably doesn't protest because he could care less what Melkor says at this point. Also, his confidence in himself his great enough he doesn't concern himself with how others view him.

8. It seems to me that the actions or protestations of some key people are missing in this chapter (more on that subject later). What were the Vanyar, the Teleri, and Aule -- the one who first taught the Noldor -- doing during all of this? The Vanyar seem to follow the lead of Manwe. Since he's not taking any action at this point, neither are they. The Teleri don't seem too concerned with things that don't directly concern them. Since we don't really know Aule's thoughts on the subject, all we can do is speculate. Perhaps he was also benefiting from the instruction of Melkor in some ways. It's no coincidence that Sauron and the Noldor, some the biggest troublemakers in the history of Arda, are closely tied to Aule.

As three great Jewels they were in form. But not until the End, when FŽanor shall return who perished ere the Sun was made, and sits now in the Halls of Awaiting and comes no more among his kin; not until the Sun passes and the Moon falls, shall it be known of what substance they were made. Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared, and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence could mar it or break it within the Kingdom of Arda.

Subject User Time
Silmarilion Discussion, Chapter 6: "...and the Unchaining of Melkor" 2 of 2 telain Send a private message to telain Mar 11 2013, 4:42pm
    Unleashing the beast CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Mar 13 2013, 5:55pm
        how well do we really know Melkor? telain Send a private message to telain Mar 16 2013, 11:02pm
            Melkor Choice and naivete of the Valar Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 17 2013, 1:38am
                Melkor's dark music and Nienna's healing telain Send a private message to telain Mar 17 2013, 11:34pm
                    Pride and pity CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Mar 18 2013, 12:49am
                        I get your thoughts CG! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 18 2013, 1:19am
                    Some thoughts on Nienna and Olorin and pity Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 18 2013, 1:12am
                        I'm always learning something new here CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Mar 18 2013, 2:04am
                            Clueless? Hardly! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 18 2013, 3:15am
    My thoughts Finwe Send a private message to Finwe Mar 14 2013, 7:07pm
        how did Aule get in this chapter? Oh, yes... telain Send a private message to telain Mar 16 2013, 11:39pm
            The whole "Knowledge- good or bad?" question elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Mar 17 2013, 10:28am
    my thoughts Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Mar 16 2013, 12:30am
        Free will Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Mar 16 2013, 4:40am
            then how does this apply to the gift of men? Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Mar 16 2013, 11:09am
                It's not easy for us Mortals to see it as a gift, is it? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 3:45pm
                    as you've described it.. Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Mar 16 2013, 4:06pm
                        Scratching head, flipping though text- Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 4:49pm
                            I think the "gift" is not connected to "free will". Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Mar 16 2013, 9:40pm
                                Did not intend to imply control Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 10:13pm
        Feanor is a pit of smouldering coals... telain Send a private message to telain Mar 16 2013, 11:52pm
    Hello all, my first post about Sil, but I have been following :) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Mar 16 2013, 2:01am
    Late answers sador Send a private message to sador Mar 18 2013, 7:35am

 
 
 

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