Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Home sweet home

CuriousG
Half-elven


Feb 23 2013, 11:29pm


Views: 3790
Shortcut
Home sweet home [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the great chapter post, Weaver!

1. Several new Elvish or geography terms are introduced here – any of them stand out to you for any reason? I rather like the "Battle of the Powers' and the sound of Brithombar, myself!

Alqualonde is one of my favorites. It sounds so musical, plus it's so easily mistaken for "aqua" (water) that the name seems especially appropriate for a swan haven.

Tuna is a mystery to me. Tolkien must have known of the confusion this would cause with the name for the fish, so why use it and not alter it somehow, maybe Tunan? Everytime I see this name, I think of Fish Hill.

Up comes Tol Eressea, the Lonely Isle, reminding me of Erebor, the Lonely Mountain. Are those the only "lonely" geographical features Tolkien came up with? Both places were well-populated, so it doesn't seem people became lonely there and the names weren't meant to be literal.

2. Do you like the imagery of an island being used as a ship? Anyone know if this is original to Tolkien, or if this idea can be found in other mythologies?
I would swear that the island ship was used in a Greek myth, but I can't find it. Or maybe some movie? I recall that long ago on my first read, the island ship didn't strike me as entirely new, and I wondered who thought it up first. Otherwise, it seems a pragmatic way to haul a bunch of people around the world. Almost too pragmatic, in a way. I can almost see the Elves lining up on the beach with their tickets to board Balar, or throwing streamers from its sides as they pulled out of the harbor to begin their cruise.

3. If it wasn’t for the grinding ice, would everyone have just waded back and forth across the narrow sea from Aman to Middle Earth? What would it be like if you could regularly travel to and from Paradise?

What I wonder is if the Valar can turn an island into a cruise ship, why not create a land bridge across the grinding ice? How does traveling to and from Aman work the rest of the time--did Orome and Yavanna need a raft for their excursions? As for being able to regularly travel to and from Paradise, that alters the whole notion, doesn't it? Normally Paradise is something far away and hard to get to, and usually hard to get out of. That's part of what makes it special. But if it's special for its own sake and is just a long swim away, does it become less special? If you can go there for casual visits, do you think less of it, or feel better in your non-Paradise setting? I'm thinking that if it is so approachable, you'd feel like you lived in semi-Paradise all the time, which would be a great way to live.

4. Are you a water person? Can you relate to the Teleri and their relationship to the sea? Do you think Tolkien loved and longed for the sea himself?

I love the sea and love sitting on beaches and watching and listening to waves crash on them, but I get my fill of it, and Tolkien and the Elves never seem to. Given that he wasn't a professional sailor and lived a land-locked life, I wonder if his sea longing was from having something he couldn't have. Would he have written his stories differently if he'd lived by the sea and took it for granted as a part of his everyday view?

5. Why are Tolkien’s Elves so filled with longing – for the sea, for the friends and relatives they are separated from, for the site of paradise? How do these kinds of longings affect the way the Elves see themselves and their relationship to where they live?
Elves seem to be artists at heart, in my view, people who see beauty in the world and always want to see more, both physical and the abstract. Men and Dwarves are more practical, and hobbits "long" for much simpler things like food and conversation. It ennobles Elves to give them deep, ethereal yearnings, but is also a surprise in a way. When I try to think of immortal beings, I think of them becoming just plain bored over the millenia, numb and immune to the world. To the contrary, the longer they live, the more Elves seem to yearn for something. Their passions never cool, even if they lead to grief.

6. The Noldor and Vanyar traveled by island – what trick did Ulmo use to get the Teleri to Aman? And what was it that Osse said that convinced some of them to stick around and become the Falathrim, even though they longed for Aman and their friends? Does love of kin overpower love of paradise for the Elves?
I think the island that became Tol Eressea was the same one that transported the Vanyar and Noldor. But if so, when the Teleri were at last ready to come to Aman from Tol Eressea, I'm not sure why the island couldn't be moved again since it had gone back and forth before; instead they had to learn how to build ships. Then what's not clear is how many people stayed on Tol Eressea and how many moved to Alqualonde, or if they went back and forth a lot.

My questions:

Valar politics: Ulmo is told to bring the Teleri to Aman, but at their plea leaves them offshore on Tol Eressea. "The Valar were little pleased to learn what he had done." So, why didn't they oblige him to finish the job, or find some other way to get the Teleri to Valinor if he wouldn't cooperate? It seems a little odd to bring them most of the way, and then leave them isolated.

Timing: The Teleri sit on Tol Eressea long enough that they develop their own language dialect. That's a long time. Why didn't someone think of teaching them about boats before this? (Osse already had to Cirdan and others.) Doesn't it seem odd that the Noldor could stand on Tuna and see this island with their missing kin and do nothing to reach them? Since Finwe missed them so much, why didn't he ask the Valar how to build a boat?

Subject User Time
*Silmarillion Discussion: Chapter 5, "Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie", Part 1 -- Who Goes and Who Stays* weaver Send a private message to weaver Feb 21 2013, 6:03am
    Weaver! sador Send a private message to sador Feb 21 2013, 12:46pm
    Long journeys on a muddy boat elevorn Send a private message to elevorn Feb 21 2013, 7:40pm
        Sea-longing- a personal Tolkien thing? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Feb 21 2013, 10:58pm
            Maybe an early childhood experience FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 22 2013, 10:48am
                I agree elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Feb 22 2013, 12:22pm
                    About the gulls FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 22 2013, 2:31pm
                    And welcome to the Reading Room! FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 22 2013, 3:15pm
                        Thanks for the welcome elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Feb 22 2013, 6:47pm
    Passage and memory, hope and regret, duty and love. squire Send a private message to squire Feb 22 2013, 3:36pm
        Alas for the wailing of the gulls... FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 22 2013, 5:05pm
            'In Eressea, in Elvenhome that no man can discover, Where the leaves fall not: land of my people for ever!' squire Send a private message to squire Feb 22 2013, 8:08pm
    Home sweet home CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 23 2013, 11:29pm
        Mmm, tuna... FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 24 2013, 5:12pm
    Quick answers - part II sador Send a private message to sador Feb 26 2013, 2:56pm
    Sorry I'm so late to the party Finwe Send a private message to Finwe Feb 27 2013, 7:38pm
        Good observation CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 27 2013, 7:52pm
            Perhaps even Finwe Send a private message to Finwe Feb 28 2013, 2:17pm
    a few thoughts telain Send a private message to telain Feb 27 2013, 8:03pm

 
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.