Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
doomed by doom?

telain
Rohan

Feb 5 2013, 4:32pm


Views: 228
Shortcut
doomed by doom? [In reply to] Can't Post

I always find discussions of prophecy, destiny, fate, doom, etc. really interesting... and frustrating! Especially with the complicating "free will" factor.

Perhaps I am not the only one, but I also get hung up on the neutrality and/or negativity of the word "doom". I usually see it as "ill-fated" or even "ruinous", but sometimes I read it simply as "destined."

With the concept free will I am even more unsure -- is Mandos really predicting what will happen, or is he simply saying what the rest of us reading the story are thinking? If it was Eru's intent that Arda be the home to his Children, then Is it really going to turn out well that the Firstborn are called to live with the Valar? (Especially considering relations with Melkor have, well, deteriorated, and the fact that though enslaved he is still "in the world"? I mean, you can't introduce a supreme evil and enslave him and think that will actually be the end of it, can you?) Sometimes I find the soothsayers and prophets in stories are far less enigmatic than they are cautious or practical. Sure, they usually are somewhat pessimistic, but then that it just another word for realist, right? In a sense, then I am reiterating the point about how predictable things are when people do have free will, just from a slightly surreal angle...

Furthermore, I think some things are predictable, but to a certain point -- usually having to do with the scale (time and space) of the prediction involved. In our example from this chapter the scale is quite large, so the prediction can be quite vague. Mandos can know something isn't going to go well, but he doesn't have to know exactly how. The sheer number of ways it can go wrong leads one to suspend precision for a general sense "this just isn't right." Other predictions can be more precise as well because there are specific people involved (Turgon, Arvedui, Frodo, etc.,) rather than an entire group or race.

I predict I will have lunch soon (very small time and space scale, so accurate prediction possible!)

Subject User Time
The Silmarillion discussion: Of the Coming of the Elves CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 1 2013, 5:34am
    Brief comment from "Arda Reconstructed" CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 1 2013, 5:55am
        I'm enjoying seeing these brief comments from AR Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Feb 1 2013, 7:34pm
        As far as I remember, not exactly. sador Send a private message to sador Feb 12 2013, 9:33pm
            Some corrections Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Feb 13 2013, 2:41am
                Thank you! sador Send a private message to sador Feb 13 2013, 5:12pm
                    Food for thought is good! Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Feb 13 2013, 7:00pm
                        "It needed a week's answer, or none." sador Send a private message to sador Feb 15 2013, 2:04pm
                            I'm always interested in what you have to say! // Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Feb 15 2013, 3:51pm
    birth and other questions fo Elves elevorn Send a private message to elevorn Feb 1 2013, 4:15pm
        >>Why do you think Melkor was nibbling around the edges of the Elves and kidnapping them a few at a time? Why not enslave them all at once? They weren't exactly a fighting force. Asger Send a private message to Asger Feb 1 2013, 6:57pm
        Elves and the bad guy CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 3 2013, 6:31pm
    great post! I hope my answers measure up... telain Send a private message to telain Feb 2 2013, 8:34pm
        Doom and Deepness and Damned, sexy orcs noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Feb 3 2013, 6:06pm
            Mandos and his secrets CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 3 2013, 9:12pm
                doomed by doom? telain Send a private message to telain Feb 5 2013, 4:32pm
        Valar and Elves CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 3 2013, 7:02pm
    Of Elves and Orcs--more info CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 3 2013, 7:56pm
    Answers at last sador Send a private message to sador Feb 11 2013, 12:16pm
        late thought about stars, and links to real Earth noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Feb 11 2013, 2:35pm
            Oh, the next chapter disscussion HAS started... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Feb 11 2013, 2:38pm
            Middle-earth and Real-earth telain Send a private message to telain Feb 12 2013, 4:25pm
        Answers to answers CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 15 2013, 1:51am

 
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.