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great post! I hope my answers measure up...

telain
Rohan

Feb 2 2013, 8:34pm


Views: 289
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great post! I hope my answers measure up... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you, CuriousG for an informative and thought-provoking discussion. Now, let's see, where to begin...

Little questions
In the previous discussion, someone mentioned that Manwe, Varda, and Ulmo really don't create sentient things (except for, now, Manwe's eagles) so perhaps they aren't that invested. Aule's dwarves won't come about until after the Elves and Humans awake, so -- again -- perhaps he isn't that invested. But this seems like a very poor argument and it is striking that the only Valar to put in the effort are Yavanna and (apparently mute) Orome. I did notice that Tulkas says:

Quote
'Nay! Let us make war swiftly! Have we not rested from strife overlong, and is not our strength now renewed?'

Perhaps it takes the Valar a long time to recover...

Why do you think Melkor was nibbling around the edges of the Elves and kidnapping them a few at a time? Why not enslave them all at once? They weren't exactly a fighting force.
If i could answer this with a question: "How many Elves were born at Cuivienen? And secondly, "How many evil spirits are we talking about?" It's not that I am hoping Tolkien would have supplied with numbers, its just that I have no concept of what a "great host" is, nor how many dark shadows Melkor has at his disposal. Perhaps the numbers were not in his favour...

Music light, stars, trees, water...
I agree with you -- I always love the ways in which he describes these things and how they are interwoven into the fabric of the world. To answer another one of your questions here: I love the fact that the constellations are recognizable (I even sometimes look at Orion and smile to myself), because this means that the beauty and majesty that Tolkien describes either used to be in our world, still is in our world, deserves to be in our world in the future. I prefer fantasy to be recognizable; it makes reality seem that much more beautiful -- even magical (in the good, Elvish, arty way...).

stars, trees, or something else Honestly I cannot decide! I love them all and every time I think I have a favourite, I think: "But [trees, stars, flowers, etc.] are pretty great, too." But I do love trees. And stars. I'll stop now.

melancholy and decline Sometimes Tolkien does frustrate... but then that is one of the reasons he is so compelling a storyteller. In answer to your question: Yes, I would like it very much if someone could just be happy," Unfortunately, those don't often make compelling stories. I wonder if his rationale for giving this rather miserable fate to the Elves, is to give them that flaw that makes them more interesting. We can't have a "great host" of nearly perfect, wise, beautiful (and more or less immortal) beings roaming around! Though I do tend to think that description faintly describes the Vanyar, which is why I think Tolkien had them leave M-e. This leads me to...

Mandos, "The Vague"
Yes, I would have liked to ask him some questions, and although I think he relishes being the mysterious type, I'd like to think Nienna or someone else could have gleaned a bit more information from him. These Elves, after all, are Iluvatar's Firstborn. I also don't think the Valar were particularly thorough searching Melkor's realm. Shouldn't they have known that he would be so deceptive? I sometimes get the impression that the Valar are like a bit absent-minded. Or perhaps as Tulkas indicated above, they are simply overworked...

Subject User Time
The Silmarillion discussion: Of the Coming of the Elves CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 1 2013, 5:34am
    Brief comment from "Arda Reconstructed" CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 1 2013, 5:55am
        I'm enjoying seeing these brief comments from AR Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Feb 1 2013, 7:34pm
        As far as I remember, not exactly. sador Send a private message to sador Feb 12 2013, 9:33pm
            Some corrections Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Feb 13 2013, 2:41am
                Thank you! sador Send a private message to sador Feb 13 2013, 5:12pm
                    Food for thought is good! Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Feb 13 2013, 7:00pm
                        "It needed a week's answer, or none." sador Send a private message to sador Feb 15 2013, 2:04pm
                            I'm always interested in what you have to say! // Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Feb 15 2013, 3:51pm
    birth and other questions fo Elves elevorn Send a private message to elevorn Feb 1 2013, 4:15pm
        >>Why do you think Melkor was nibbling around the edges of the Elves and kidnapping them a few at a time? Why not enslave them all at once? They weren't exactly a fighting force. Asger Send a private message to Asger Feb 1 2013, 6:57pm
        Elves and the bad guy CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 3 2013, 6:31pm
    great post! I hope my answers measure up... telain Send a private message to telain Feb 2 2013, 8:34pm
        Doom and Deepness and Damned, sexy orcs noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Feb 3 2013, 6:06pm
            Mandos and his secrets CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 3 2013, 9:12pm
                doomed by doom? telain Send a private message to telain Feb 5 2013, 4:32pm
        Valar and Elves CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 3 2013, 7:02pm
    Of Elves and Orcs--more info CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 3 2013, 7:56pm
    Answers at last sador Send a private message to sador Feb 11 2013, 12:16pm
        late thought about stars, and links to real Earth noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Feb 11 2013, 2:35pm
            Oh, the next chapter disscussion HAS started... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Feb 11 2013, 2:38pm
            Middle-earth and Real-earth telain Send a private message to telain Feb 12 2013, 4:25pm
        Answers to answers CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 15 2013, 1:51am

 
 
 

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