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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Feb 1 2013, 5:55pm
Views: 961
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Thorin (book and movie) - jerk?
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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I have found it interesting to consider the many remarks regarding book/movie Thorin being, or not being, a "jerk".(So while I am replying to your thoughtful post, I'm thinking more generally than just your remarks). I went back and reread the first chapter of the Hobbit yesterday night, thinking about just this question. Simply in terms of the script and RA's performance in the Bag End scene, is Movie Thorin shown as more, or less, of a "jerk?" Well, we meet Thorin in the book at as he extricates himself from the bottom of the Dwarf-pile that results when Bilbo opens his door. He does not greet Bilbo in the manner of the other Dwarves (he is at no one's service, thank you!) and is described immediately as "haughty". He also blames Bilbo for the pile-up and poor Bilbo must apologize to him many times before he finally stops frowning at him. RA's demeanor as Bilbo opens the door to him is very comparable, that look, and his immediately addressing himself to Gandalf to complain, rather than greeting his host, seems much in line with his presentation in the book (rather than, less "jerk-like"). The movie moment of him asking Bilbo what his preferred weapon is, does not exist in the book. His conclusion, that Bilbo looks more like a grocer and a burglar, is given to Thorin in the movie (but was book!Gloin's, from a later moment in the scene). Thorin in the book displays, at least in his surface behavior, an acceptance of Bilbo's suitability for the position of burglar. I've not read further (yet), but I am fairly certain from my recollection of multiple previous readings (albeit some 20 years ago most recently) that there is no book moment comparable to his telling Bilbo "you have no place among us" in the aftermath of the Stone Giant scene (short of, obviously, events at the Lonely Mountain which will occur in Movie 3). From which I conclude that, objectively, if Book Thorin is a jerk, so is movie Thorin. I find this an interesting phenomenon for understanding the difference a film makes. To me in considering this, it seems that Boromir is indeed the right LotR character to think about. By giving us these two characters in movies, played by two talented actors in Sean Bean and Richard Armstrong, we have less left to our imaginations. The added scene of Boromir providing Merry and Pippin with basic training in the use of a sword, for example - it's not in any way inconsistent with the book character that lives in my imagination. But it makes him human, and attractive, in ways which I could have imagined when reading, but didn't. (He was a successful warrior and leader of Men, he must have had charisma and taken care of those under his command to get there, but showing it, makes it harder to miss.) There is also a power to seeing and hearing Bean deliver Boromir's lines about Gondor's need. The book has the words (more or less, I'm too lazy to check) but not enough description to convey the utter sincerity and conviction with which Bean delivers those lines. In Thorin's case, he describes some of his own backstory to Bilbo in his long speech explaining the situation. On an intellectual level, if I had stopped to think about it, I could have deduced that Smaug's coming and the destruction he wrought were of course key, emotional moments in Thorin's life. But the book does not tell me so. Seeing young Thorin barely save himself and Balin from the flames, seeing him stand with the soldiers as the dragon broke in, and watching him flee with all the other Dwarves, makes it impossible to overlook it. And where I have some understanding of the pressure a character may be feeling, and some sympathy for his past and current problems, it makes behaviors I might otherwise view as negative, more understandable. Personally, I did not find either book or movie Thorin a jerk (at this phase of the story). But I would attribute this to personal taste. As people we have varying levels of tolerance of gruffness/sharpness in characters, so of course we will disagree to some extent on who is, or is not, "a jerk". I find both the movie and book character to have likable features along with this trait. (I just find the movie version far more vivid). So I realize some of our differences are going to come from this. I can understand why someone would say both Thorin's are "jerks" but this has in no way prevented me from falling head over heels for the movie character.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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What did you think of the movie Thorin?
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bborchar
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Jan 31 2013, 6:57pm
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Surprise...I loved movie Thorin!
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arithmancer
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Jan 31 2013, 7:33pm
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Its true.
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Brethil
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Jan 31 2013, 8:21pm
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I think the key to movie-Thorin is his voice.
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Ataahua
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Jan 31 2013, 7:37pm
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Mods up! And...
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Owain
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Jan 31 2013, 7:52pm
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Mmmmm...
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Roheryn
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Jan 31 2013, 8:51pm
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I had never considered those physical limitations
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Ataahua
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Jan 31 2013, 9:01pm
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prosthetic effects as well
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mefansmum
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Feb 1 2013, 7:21am
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Simple to me...
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MasterOrc
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Jan 31 2013, 8:07pm
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A very pleasant suprise!
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Angharad73
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Jan 31 2013, 8:22pm
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I had no preconceived notions as to how he should be portrayed so:
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florian
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Jan 31 2013, 8:37pm
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Then why did Balin age so much?
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 1:54am
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In the movie Balin is portrayed as being older.
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florian
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Feb 1 2013, 2:50am
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I liked him actually
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Radagast-Aiwendil
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Jan 31 2013, 8:38pm
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Funny Thing
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IdrilofGondolin
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Feb 1 2013, 9:58pm
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I know what you mean
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Radagast-Aiwendil
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Feb 1 2013, 10:02pm
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Was a bit different than what I imagined.
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Kimtc
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Jan 31 2013, 8:56pm
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Great acting, great writing, disappointingly short beard. //
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Macfeast
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Jan 31 2013, 9:04pm
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As for the age.
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Macfeast
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Jan 31 2013, 10:37pm
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Very well said!
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Lusitano
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Feb 1 2013, 12:49am
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I thought Armitage was excellent. For me, it was all in the design. //
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Macfeast
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Feb 1 2013, 1:59am
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I didnt sadly
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Lusitano
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Feb 1 2013, 3:48am
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But this younger Thorin has much more to lose...
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Roheryn
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Feb 1 2013, 1:07am
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Old Thorin could have lived out his last years in peace, but didn't. He went to reclaim the home of his people.
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Macfeast
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Feb 1 2013, 2:00am
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I respectfully disagree.
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 2:15am
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Frequently.
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Roheryn
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Jan 31 2013, 9:23pm
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He's more than eye candy?
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 1:57am
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Yes, he IS nice to look at
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ShireHorse
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Feb 1 2013, 2:16pm
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Davy Jones' role in the entertainment industry
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 4:59pm
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You seem to be implying
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 5:03pm
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spectacular!
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Old Toby
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Jan 31 2013, 10:30pm
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Yeah, that's what I *meant* to say!
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Roheryn
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Feb 1 2013, 12:57am
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As much as I want to agree with you...
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 2:11am
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Anyway, as much as I hate to admit it, I think GdT was much braver in his casting decision and vision of Thorin. And I think this Thorin is too conventional and taking the easy, pop culture road
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Lusitano
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Feb 1 2013, 3:42am
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practical and logical to go younger
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MistyMountain
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Feb 1 2013, 3:58am
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Lets be practical then
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Lusitano
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Feb 1 2013, 4:08am
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He does not wear a costume weighing over 40 pounds.. (20-30 kg).//
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arithmancer
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Feb 1 2013, 4:53am
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John Callen?
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Macfeast
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Feb 1 2013, 6:55am
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Theoden
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IdrilofGondolin
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Feb 1 2013, 10:09pm
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Good point
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Rostron2
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Feb 1 2013, 4:51pm
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We can have more than one elder statesman
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 5:20pm
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thorin the great.
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andwise
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Jan 31 2013, 10:33pm
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Thorin was this movie's Boromir, for me
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entmaiden
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Jan 31 2013, 10:52pm
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Based on the early PR shots, he didn't look hot.
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Kimtc
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Jan 31 2013, 11:05pm
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yeah in the earlier renditions
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Old Toby
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Jan 31 2013, 11:36pm
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That nails it.
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Elizabeth
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Feb 1 2013, 12:10am
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Love him as Thorin!
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Eowyn3
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Jan 31 2013, 11:42pm
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Spot on!//
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Rostron2
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Jan 31 2013, 11:48pm
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Guess I should answer my own questions...
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bborchar
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Feb 1 2013, 12:12am
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Alas!
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 1:52am
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I was much more pleased with him than I initially expected after first seeing the younger look
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 1 2013, 1:58am
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Movie Thorin
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Gelir
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Feb 1 2013, 3:12am
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I think PJ did tweak Balin's age for the movie
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florian
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Feb 1 2013, 3:27am
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RE: Thorin
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Retro315
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Feb 1 2013, 4:52am
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I love movie Thorin!
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Súlimë
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Feb 1 2013, 6:56am
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good
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jimmyfenn
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Feb 1 2013, 7:31am
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This is a very interesting observation.
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Kimtc
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Feb 1 2013, 3:03pm
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Me to
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imin
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Feb 1 2013, 3:08pm
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one of the things I love about these dwarves
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Old Toby
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Feb 1 2013, 3:41pm
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They are all short and stocky
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imin
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Feb 1 2013, 3:47pm
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yes you're right
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Old Toby
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Feb 1 2013, 3:58pm
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Yeah i would agree with that
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imin
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Feb 1 2013, 4:14pm
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atypical
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jimmyfenn
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Feb 1 2013, 4:49pm
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I think this is a good point...
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bborchar
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Feb 1 2013, 4:59pm
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snow white
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jimmyfenn
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Feb 1 2013, 5:04pm
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I can't name all of snow whites 7 dwarves
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 5:12pm
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The other dwarves are unconventional
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 5:26pm
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I don't think they risked that much with the unconventional dwarven designs, really.
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Macfeast
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Feb 1 2013, 5:59pm
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Very true.
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 9:33pm
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agree but..
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glor
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Feb 1 2013, 10:56pm
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In all honesty
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 5:18pm
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Surprise! I didn't like movie-Thorin much after the first viewing.
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Alassëa Eruvande
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Feb 1 2013, 2:25pm
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I like him
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imin
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Feb 1 2013, 2:29pm
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I say they're setting him up as Isildur.
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 5:11pm
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Surprised to see you write that
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arithmancer
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Feb 1 2013, 6:31pm
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It felt superficial to me
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 9:26pm
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Just Bilbo? (***Book Spoilers***)
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arithmancer
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Feb 2 2013, 3:04am
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So the relationship in the book makes no sense?
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hutch
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Feb 2 2013, 5:10am
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Not exactly
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arithmancer
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Feb 4 2013, 3:57pm
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Thorin (book and movie) - jerk?
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arithmancer
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Feb 1 2013, 5:55pm
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I think you're spot on with the Boromir-comparison, with added scenes and the like.
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Macfeast
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Feb 1 2013, 6:49pm
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Gold was the dwarves' selfish folly
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 9:31pm
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I wouldnt count out the gold lust
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moreorless
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Feb 2 2013, 6:35am
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What I meant was
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hutch
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Feb 2 2013, 6:59am
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Not sure I really see that...
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moreorless
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Feb 2 2013, 8:16am
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Better than the book
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CathrineB
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Feb 2 2013, 9:23am
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Wonder how can this be possible
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Marionette
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Feb 2 2013, 7:40pm
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Not alone :)
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Gelir
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Feb 1 2013, 10:13pm
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It´s sadder because he had flaws
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Marionette
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Feb 2 2013, 7:46pm
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I felt completely differently...
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bborchar
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Feb 2 2013, 8:34pm
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I liked him better
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Elessar
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Feb 1 2013, 2:39pm
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on thorin
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cartermoulton
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Feb 1 2013, 4:53pm
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Better than the book
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lindorian
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Feb 1 2013, 5:13pm
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better than the book?
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jimmyfenn
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Feb 1 2013, 5:17pm
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Better than the book?
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nycwine
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Feb 1 2013, 5:38pm
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Book Thorin was much more complex and realistic
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 9:38pm
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How is book-Thorin complex?
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bborchar
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Feb 1 2013, 10:15pm
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ok fair enough
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hutch
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Feb 1 2013, 11:23pm
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Thanks for the no spoiler alert
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sphdle1
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Feb 2 2013, 4:31am
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It's all about the eyes
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Bellerock
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Feb 2 2013, 1:43am
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Thorin
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Ireth
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Feb 2 2013, 11:17am
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Being a fan of book Thorin before all this
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Marionette
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Feb 2 2013, 7:25pm
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I wasn't looking forward to the Hobbit
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Esmeralda
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Feb 2 2013, 11:24pm
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I'm in total agreement with Peter Jackson
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GloryBox
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Feb 3 2013, 7:11am
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Just as Jackson's Boromir
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grammaboodawg
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Feb 3 2013, 8:31pm
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Yup, with ya all the way gramma
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Old Toby
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Feb 3 2013, 11:14pm
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Me, too!
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kiwifan
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Feb 4 2013, 7:10pm
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Nor do I think he would want to
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arithmancer
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Feb 4 2013, 7:39pm
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You're so right about Boromir and Thorin
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GloryBox
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Feb 3 2013, 11:45pm
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