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elevorn
Lorien
Feb 1 2013, 4:15pm
Views: 2405
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birth and other questions fo Elves
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Little questions:
Why do you suppose the other Valar don't make their own trips to M-E? Don't they all have a personal stake in it?
Perhaps they are weary fo dealing with all the mess of Melkor. they know he's out there, they've worked really hard on building up Valinor. Maybe they don't want to leave it. Hard to say for sure, but each seems to return to the element they are connected to and only concern themselves with the best of their work.
Why does Orome get no dialogue?
I have no idea, maybe there was little to be said as they were still learning each others language and there was no record of what was said.
What's Melkor been up to?
You pretty much summed it up. He was ordering his minions, digging deeper holes, teaching Sauron, doing some really strange biological experiments. I kind of view him as a Dr. Frankenstien of sorts. Making different things out of different parts and coming up with terrifyling creatures as a result. - He fashioned the Misty Mountains to hinder the riding of Orome (though only if he was going east/west).
- Melkor has corrupted beasts and spirits: "the evil things that he had perverted walked abroad, and the dark and slumbering woods were haunted by monsters and shapes of dread."
- Orcs: the wise of Eressea believe Orcs were made from corrupted Elves. Also, they "had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Iluvatar" (a polite way of saying they have sex). "And deep in their dark hearts the Orcs loathe their Master, whom they served in fear, the maker only of their misery. This it may be was the vilest deed of Melkor, and the most hateful to Iluvatar."
>>Why do you think Melkor was nibbling around the edges of the Elves and kidnapping them a few at a time? Why not enslave them all at once? They weren't exactly a fighting force.
If he takes them all at once, which apparently there were tons of them, and yet we only get what, four names or so, he will have no way of sowing seeds of discord. He was very good about looking ahead to see what he could do with small lies and deciet as a way of hurting the Valar. Also, he wanted them to suffer and see what he could do to them in the twisting of that race. I go with the elves from Orcs theory. He wanted the elves to see what mockery he could make of them. Also there may have been the thought of terrible reprisal were he to enslave the entire race. Perhaps he feared Illuvatar would become involved if he did such a thing.
More questions:
Varda creates the constellations of Orion and the Big Dipper as omens to daunt Melkor. What effect does this connection to our own world have on you? Do you react with, "Cool! That's our world!" or "Hmm. I liked it better when this was a fantasy place in another time that I could escape to." ?
I like that it is tied to our world. Makes the escape a little easier for me to make when I dive into Tolkien's world.
Tolkien calls Varda's new stars "the greatest of all the works of the Valar since their coming into Arda." Do you agree? I vote the Trees as greatest.
I have to agree that the stars are the greatest, no one can cut them down or blot out their light.
The Valar don't find Sauron and many other creatures of Melkor. How do you react to this: do you think they should have and are at fault? Or was Melkor just fiendishly clever in hiding things from people who don't really understand deceit?
I think they lost focus and only dealt with Melkor, they seem to fail at this several times though. There is a lot of grace given to him.
Ulmo is the leader of the faction saying that the Elves should be left in Middle-earth to improve the land, but the Valar decide they love the Elves too much to leave them so far away, and that it's too dangerous to leave them overseas. Mandos says, "So it is doomed," and we're told "From this summons came many woes that afterwards befell." If you were there, wouldn't you get more information out of Mandos? Doesn't this sound like a warning that no one is heeding? And if he understands it himself, doesn't he owe it to his kindred to warn them of the consequences? Aside from that, do you agree with Ulmo that the Elves should have been left in Middle-earth?
Mandos is like "Debbie Downer" he's got good information, but man he can ruin a party. At the same time, I would have definitely been asking questions, but he has the feeling that you can ask him, but isn't talking.
Why are the Noldor called "the Deep Elves?" To me, "deep" means philosophical, or a highly complex personality. Are the Teleri and Vanyar shallow in comparison? (This isn't meant to be provocative; I've never understood this word usage.)
I don't understand the usage either. I think they are all on the same level, though the Vanyar seem a bit shallow and cowardly to me, they just leave and never come back, tehy don;t really do anything until Earendil calls for aid. Its just hard for me to see the Vanyar as great when they don't do anything. The Noldor mine and create and build and conquer, the Teleri rule and make kingdoms and build really fancy boats. But the meaning of "Deep Elves" is a bit foreign to me.
Last
Is this a chapter you come back to, or is one read enough? (I personally come back over and over.)
I come back trying to figure out who is related to who and how and why its important. One of the confusing aspects to me is how many elves there are, are they born, do they just wake up? How did they get there? When did they start marrying and making little elves? How many of them just woke up? Who taught them how to make clothes and all that stuff?
"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com
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The Silmarillion discussion: Of the Coming of the Elves
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CuriousG
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Feb 1 2013, 5:34am
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Brief comment from "Arda Reconstructed"
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CuriousG
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Feb 1 2013, 5:55am
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I'm enjoying seeing these brief comments from AR
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 1 2013, 7:34pm
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As far as I remember, not exactly.
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sador
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Feb 12 2013, 9:33pm
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Some corrections
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 13 2013, 2:41am
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Thank you!
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sador
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Feb 13 2013, 5:12pm
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Food for thought is good!
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 13 2013, 7:00pm
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"It needed a week's answer, or none."
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sador
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Feb 15 2013, 2:04pm
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I'm always interested in what you have to say! //
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 15 2013, 3:51pm
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birth and other questions fo Elves
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elevorn
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Feb 1 2013, 4:15pm
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>>Why do you think Melkor was nibbling around the edges of the Elves and kidnapping them a few at a time? Why not enslave them all at once? They weren't exactly a fighting force.
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Asger
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Feb 1 2013, 6:57pm
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Elves and the bad guy
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CuriousG
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Feb 3 2013, 6:31pm
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great post! I hope my answers measure up...
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telain
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Feb 2 2013, 8:34pm
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Doom and Deepness and Damned, sexy orcs
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noWizardme
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Feb 3 2013, 6:06pm
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Mandos and his secrets
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CuriousG
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Feb 3 2013, 9:12pm
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doomed by doom?
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telain
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Feb 5 2013, 4:32pm
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Valar and Elves
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CuriousG
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Feb 3 2013, 7:02pm
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Of Elves and Orcs--more info
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CuriousG
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Feb 3 2013, 7:56pm
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Answers at last
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sador
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Feb 11 2013, 12:16pm
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late thought about stars, and links to real Earth
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noWizardme
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Feb 11 2013, 2:35pm
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Oh, the next chapter disscussion HAS started...
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noWizardme
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Feb 11 2013, 2:38pm
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Middle-earth and Real-earth
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telain
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Feb 12 2013, 4:25pm
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Answers to answers
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CuriousG
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Feb 15 2013, 1:51am
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