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CuriousG
Half-elven
Feb 1 2013, 5:34am
Views: 4062
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The Silmarillion discussion: Of the Coming of the Elves
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Can't Post
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Chapter outline:
- Confronted with the widening of Melkor's power, Yavanna whips up the Valar to defeat him so the Elves can be born safely.
- Mandos calls the war talk to a halt with a prophecy that the Elves will be born in darkness and will love the stars, which prompts Varda to create new, bolder stars to welcome their arrival.
- The Elves are born by Lake Cuivienen.
- Orome discovers them by hearing them singing and reports back to Valinor.
- The Valar defeat Melkor (at last!) and imprison him in Mandos.
- Ingwe, Elwe, and Finwe go to Valinor as tourists and come back to inspire their kindred to journey there.
- Orome leads them toward Valinor, getting as far as Beleriand.
- We learn of the differences between the three great kindreds of Elves.
Little questions:
Why do you suppose the other Valar don't make their own trips to M-E? Don't they all have a personal stake in it?
Why does Orome get no dialogue?
What's Melkor been up to?
- He fashioned the Misty Mountains to hinder the riding of Orome (though only if he was going east/west).
- Melkor has corrupted beasts and spirits: "the evil things that he had perverted walked abroad, and the dark and slumbering woods were haunted by monsters and shapes of dread."
- Orcs: the wise of Eressea believe Orcs were made from corrupted Elves. Also, they "had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Iluvatar" (a polite way of saying they have sex). "And deep in their dark hearts the Orcs loathe their Master, whom they served in fear, the maker only of their misery. This it may be was the vilest deed of Melkor, and the most hateful to Iluvatar."
>>Why do you think Melkor was nibbling around the edges of the Elves and kidnapping them a few at a time? Why not enslave them all at once? They weren't exactly a fighting force.
Recurring Tolkien themes:
1. Music, light, stars, trees, water
Tokien seems happiest and at his most creative when he writes about these themes, and he weaves them together in unexpected ways. Music created Arda and its people, Yavanna's song created trees of light, and Varda created stars from the water/dew of those trees of light. Nice cycle, huh? The Elves who never reach Valinor still benefit from seeing the stars made from its Two Trees.
Next Elves awaken by a body of water, and they are discovered by Orome because of their singing. Some are frightened by the deceits of Melkor but most are drawn to the light of Aman in his face--the same light in the Two Trees and the stars.
The Elves love the stars as their first sight, and their first sound is water, which remembers the Great Music.
2. Grudges
Melkor never forgives the Elves for being the cause of his downfall. (Just as Elves and Dwarves never forgive each other, and Gollum hateses a certain thief forever.)
3. Melancholy and decline
These first Elves are "stronger and greater than they have since become; but not more fair..." Their beauty exceeded all other beauty from Iluvatar, "and sorrow and wisdom have enhanced it." This is our first introduction to Elves, and already we collide with the bittersweet news that they become weaker over time, and it takes sadness to make them more beautiful than their progenitors. Do you ever wonder (like me) why Tolkien can't just make everyone happy for a little while?
Did I miss any other themes?
More questions:
Varda creates the constellations of Orion and the Big Dipper as omens to daunt Melkor. What effect does this connection to our own world have on you? Do you react with, "Cool! That's our world!" or "Hmm. I liked it better when this was a fantasy place in another time that I could escape to." ?
Tolkien calls Varda's new stars "the greatest of all the works of the Valar since their coming into Arda." Do you agree? I vote the Trees as greatest.
The Valar don't find Sauron and many other creatures of Melkor. How do you react to this: do you think they should have and are at fault? Or was Melkor just fiendishly clever in hiding things from people who don't really understand deceit?
Ulmo is the leader of the faction saying that the Elves should be left in Middle-earth to improve the land, but the Valar decide they love the Elves too much to leave them so far away, and that it's too dangerous to leave them overseas. Mandos says, "So it is doomed," and we're told "From this summons came many woes that afterwards befell." If you were there, wouldn't you get more information out of Mandos? Doesn't this sound like a warning that no one is heeding? And if he understands it himself, doesn't he owe it to his kindred to warn them of the consequences? Aside from that, do you agree with Ulmo that the Elves should have been left in Middle-earth?
Why are the Noldor called "the Deep Elves?" To me, "deep" means philosophical, or a highly complex personality. Are the Teleri and Vanyar shallow in comparison? (This isn't meant to be provocative; I've never understood this word usage.)
Last
Is this a chapter you come back to, or is one read enough? (I personally come back over and over.)
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Time
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The Silmarillion discussion: Of the Coming of the Elves
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CuriousG
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Feb 1 2013, 5:34am
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Brief comment from "Arda Reconstructed"
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CuriousG
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Feb 1 2013, 5:55am
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I'm enjoying seeing these brief comments from AR
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 1 2013, 7:34pm
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As far as I remember, not exactly.
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sador
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Feb 12 2013, 9:33pm
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Some corrections
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 13 2013, 2:41am
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Thank you!
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sador
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Feb 13 2013, 5:12pm
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Food for thought is good!
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 13 2013, 7:00pm
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"It needed a week's answer, or none."
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sador
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Feb 15 2013, 2:04pm
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I'm always interested in what you have to say! //
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 15 2013, 3:51pm
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birth and other questions fo Elves
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elevorn
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Feb 1 2013, 4:15pm
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>>Why do you think Melkor was nibbling around the edges of the Elves and kidnapping them a few at a time? Why not enslave them all at once? They weren't exactly a fighting force.
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Asger
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Feb 1 2013, 6:57pm
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Elves and the bad guy
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CuriousG
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Feb 3 2013, 6:31pm
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great post! I hope my answers measure up...
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telain
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Feb 2 2013, 8:34pm
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Doom and Deepness and Damned, sexy orcs
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noWizardme
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Feb 3 2013, 6:06pm
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Mandos and his secrets
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CuriousG
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Feb 3 2013, 9:12pm
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doomed by doom?
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telain
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Feb 5 2013, 4:32pm
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Valar and Elves
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CuriousG
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Feb 3 2013, 7:02pm
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Of Elves and Orcs--more info
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CuriousG
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Feb 3 2013, 7:56pm
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Answers at last
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sador
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Feb 11 2013, 12:16pm
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late thought about stars, and links to real Earth
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noWizardme
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Feb 11 2013, 2:35pm
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Oh, the next chapter disscussion HAS started...
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noWizardme
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Feb 11 2013, 2:38pm
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Middle-earth and Real-earth
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telain
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Feb 12 2013, 4:25pm
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Answers to answers
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CuriousG
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Feb 15 2013, 1:51am
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