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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thror getting killed before the main battle is essential to understanding the war and the dwarves.

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 30 2013, 6:20am


Views: 389
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Thror getting killed before the main battle is essential to understanding the war and the dwarves. [In reply to] Can't Post

Moria was accursed since the rise of The Balrog and the slaying of Durin. Even with all the time that had passed, it was a place of ill omen. Not until the seemingly impossible defeat of Smaug did the dwarves seem to take a notion (wrongly) that their fortunes had changed sufficiently to try to retake the place.

The war of The Dwarves against the Goblins/Orcs was a war of vengeance. Tolkien talks in other writings about how seriously the Dwarves valued their fathers, being very patriarchal. A dwarf might spend his life avenging a dire greivance to a father. And, Tolkien further explained, Thror, as the Heir of Durin, the Eldest Forefather, was essentially seen as the Father of The Race. Its like if Uncle Sam was a real person and someone assasinated him. Few if any other offenses could have so enraged the entire Dwarven race as to serve to gather together armies from all Seven Houses, as happened for this war. The imagery and the tale is SO powerful. Thrain weeping and tearing his beard, then seven days of silence, and then the decleration of war. The notion that Azog swore to wipe out Durin's line when exactly the opposite was true. The Dwarves launched a war of semi-genocidal intent against the orcs. "They sacked, one by one, every stronghold of The Orcs that they could find, and they hunted for Azog in every den under the mountains."

Changing those two events entirely changes the history of The Dwarves at that point in The Third Age. The only thing that remains the same is that there was a war. It's like suggesting that Sauron went to war with The Elves because Celebrimbor left him to be with Galadriel. . . . whaaa? Just plain wrong. It could have been done more accurately, and without the need for a thousand flashbacks. And then there is the matter of the non-mention of Durin's Bane. . . that may yet be adressed, especially if the Visual Companion and the fire within the East Gate are any indication . . . but if not, then the single most significant event in the history of The Dwarves in the Third Age (or the Second, for that matter, except maybe for the receiving of The Seven) is essentially ommited.

I agree about the Hobbit's enchantment being perfect as prequel material to what follows. But the Dwarven history alterations still ranknle my chain.

In Reply To
It was pretty much as it was in the book wasn't it? excpet Azog not dying. I know Thror gets killed before the main battle but that's not too major is it? The flashback would've been abit confusing if it showed too many different events leading up to it.

As for the The Hobbit's enchantment, I think it's perfect as a prequel to LOTR's grand epicness and I think I prefer it in some ways.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Subject User Time
Why, to my mind, An Unexpected Journey greatly adds to rather than detracts from LOTR's fim legacy. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 30 2013, 2:04am
    We are on the same highway again Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Jan 30 2013, 2:29am
        Absolutely. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 30 2013, 2:54am
            Always a chance Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Jan 30 2013, 3:32am
    what do you hate about the dwarf histroy? lurtz2010 Send a private message to lurtz2010 Jan 30 2013, 5:59am
        Thror getting killed before the main battle is essential to understanding the war and the dwarves. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 30 2013, 6:20am
    Thanks for you post LordMaximus Send a private message to LordMaximus Jan 30 2013, 6:24am
        Agreed. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 30 2013, 6:31am
            Pace and import Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 30 2013, 12:39pm
            You do that for sure Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Jan 30 2013, 8:10pm
    to the op redgiraffe Send a private message to redgiraffe Jan 30 2013, 12:45pm
        *warm smile and blush* AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 30 2013, 7:05pm
    It was setup to fail, though stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Jan 30 2013, 1:17pm
        Are you insinuating Lindele Send a private message to Lindele Jan 30 2013, 3:53pm
            The prologue invoked LOTR stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Jan 30 2013, 8:16pm
        The tone of the prologue for AUJ is mixed, like the movie. And it does not go AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 30 2013, 7:22pm
            I found the tone Arandiel Send a private message to Arandiel Jan 31 2013, 6:02am
                Almost exactly. Point well made. Indeed, Galadriel tells us definitively that something HAS been lost AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 31 2013, 11:32pm
    The films Rostron2 Send a private message to Rostron2 Jan 30 2013, 4:14pm
    Appreciate the thoughtful post Loresilme Send a private message to Loresilme Jan 30 2013, 5:43pm
        Aww. Thank you, as well. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 30 2013, 7:52pm
    Great post! Súlimë Send a private message to Súlimë Jan 31 2013, 7:36am
        Thank you! And I absolutely agree with your comment about that fading and loss AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 31 2013, 11:57pm
            Thanks for a heartful posting Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 1 2013, 12:58am
                I am glad you did. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 1 2013, 1:49am
    Thank you for this lovely post! elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Jan 31 2013, 4:31pm
        ;) AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 1 2013, 1:49am
    Agreed Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Feb 1 2013, 1:09am
        This is very true. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 1 2013, 1:53am

 
 
 

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