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noWizardme
Half-elven
Jan 27 2013, 12:24pm
Views: 1839
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Fall, Mortalty and the Machine
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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Some editions of the Sil include Tolkien's covering letter to Milton Waldman in 1951, part of Tolkien's attempt then to get the Sil published. Tolkien tries to summarise what the Sil is about, and comes up with "Fall, Mortality and the Machine": thoughts very relevant (I think) to our current chapter, and why Aule gets a reprimand for dwarf-making, in contrast to the treatment of Melkor. First, I'll try to paraphrase Tolkiens argument briefly. Fall (in the Luciferian sense) we've seen already in the Sil with Melkor and Sauron. I believe we see the same theme several more times before the book is done. Tolkien argues that Mortality is one route to Fall. That could be the case directly, I suppose, I that one might object to the limitations of being mortal and Fall in trying to overcome them. But Tolkien develops the argument a different way. He argues that Mortality is bound up with creativity. This can lead to trouble - for example the creative mortal becoming possessive and wanting to become "Lord and God of his private creation." That then leads, Tolkien says, to the Machine: plans and devices for domination (whether magical or science and engineering) "bulldozing the real world, or coercing other wills". This thought leads Tolkien onto an ideas about magic, which I note he also explored in his essay On Fairy-Stories. The idea is that "Enchantment" - super-effective art- is distinct from Magic ( a technology for getting your way). [Some of us recently discussed that in this thread: http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=544821#544821 ]. This discussion of Elvish arty magic vs. domination magic leads us into a revealing comment about Mortality and the Elves.
"The 'Elves' are 'immortal' at least as far as this world goes: and hence are concerned rather with the grief and burdens of deathlessness in time and change, than in death." So an immortal creature can still suffer the pains and temptations of Mortality- grieving for the impermanence of its creations, rather than its own transient-ness. The Enemy, Tolkien notes, is very much about domination. But:
...frightful evil can and does arise from an apparently good root, the desire to benefit the world and others - speedily and according to the benefactor's own plans - is a recurrent motive." Ok, that's my paraphrase of Tolkiens letter (happy to discuss any points I missed or misrepresented!). The reason I raise it is as follows. I see Aule fitting into this Mortality/creator trap (for all that, like the Elves, he is immortal). But he's quickly caught, and confesses, repents and is forgiven. Is there a Christian and especially Catholic parallel to be made here? Perhaps someone knowledgeable will comment, if it seems interesting.) of course, having bent the rules for one "child", Eru is promptly faced with "why can't I have one?" From the others. Perhaps it's a good thing that only 3 of the Valar know about this, or we'd end up with a veritable Narnia of talking creatures. Less flippantly, maybe this episode is showing us the acceptable limits of what sub-creators can do without Falling. Tolkien may be wanting to show us this to contrast with other episodes in his writing where characters overstep the line and "frightful evil" results. I'd be interested in hearing what you think!
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User
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Time
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The Silmarillion discussion: Of Aulë and Yavanna
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telain
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Jan 20 2013, 6:00pm
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I do like the last lines of this chapter ;-)
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FlyingSerkis
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Jan 20 2013, 9:36pm
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Aluë and Yavanna
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masinger
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Jan 20 2013, 10:46pm
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now that you mention it...
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telain
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Jan 21 2013, 1:48pm
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what are Valar "children" anyway?
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telain
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Jan 21 2013, 1:33pm
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Dharma and Greg
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PhantomS
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Jan 21 2013, 2:52pm
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of ethical creation
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telain
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Jan 22 2013, 8:25pm
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Counterfeit creatures
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 2:45pm
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I suspect counterfeit Dwarves are hobbits--beware!/
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 3:38am
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Of Valar and Marriage Counseling
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CuriousG
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Jan 21 2013, 7:30pm
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that last line...
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telain
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Jan 23 2013, 8:30pm
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I'm going to jump on that comparison!
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FlyingSerkis
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Jan 23 2013, 9:25pm
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Great insights from both of you.//
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CuriousG
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Jan 23 2013, 9:36pm
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thanks!
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telain
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Jan 24 2013, 6:39pm
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Noble goals, dropping it stylistically, selfishness and retrofitted Ents
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noWizardme
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Jan 24 2013, 10:16pm
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Whateth dost thou speaketh of?
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telain
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Jan 24 2013, 10:59pm
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Okay, back to Dwarves, or Telain complaineth to Eru
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CuriousG
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Jan 25 2013, 12:08am
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absolutely no complaints here!
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telain
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Jan 27 2013, 12:45am
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Begging dwarves beggar belief?
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 12:38pm
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An Ent and a Dwarf walk into a bar (it has to be tried :) )
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 1:30pm
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I like the 2nd one best./
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 3:37am
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Some passages are to be found in the original Silmarillion, and others ent, as you might say
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squire
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Jan 25 2013, 12:58pm
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The problem with Ents
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CuriousG
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Jan 24 2013, 6:01pm
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good points!
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telain
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Jan 24 2013, 6:44pm
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Yavanna is to Galadriel as who is to whom?
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CuriousG
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Jan 24 2013, 6:57pm
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very interesting questions!
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elostirion74
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Jan 22 2013, 9:32pm
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Maiar of Aulë and Yavanna
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 25 2013, 12:54am
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Superb connection!//
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CuriousG
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Jan 25 2013, 1:34am
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Then again, Yavanna...
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 25 2013, 1:46am
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superb connection seconded!
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telain
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Jan 27 2013, 12:56am
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Fall, Mortalty and the Machine
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 12:24pm
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Creativity gone amiss
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 4:24am
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Saruman!
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noWizardme
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Jan 28 2013, 5:26pm
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Don't stop there with the editing
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 5:49pm
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"creativity gone amiss" and sadly...
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telain
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Jan 28 2013, 5:57pm
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and on to the next chapter...
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noWizardme
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Feb 3 2013, 5:08pm
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Insights from "Arda Reconstructed"
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 3:50am
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Interesting!
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telain
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Jan 28 2013, 5:38pm
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A long post went down the cyber-drain!
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sador
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Feb 7 2013, 2:51pm
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The writing is still very much JRRT's
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 7 2013, 3:55pm
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