The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room: Some passages are to be found in the original Silmarillion, and others ent, as you might say (squire)

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Some passages are to be found in the original Silmarillion, and others ent, as you might say

squire
Half-elven

Jan 25 2013, 12:58pm

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Some passages are to be found in the original Silmarillion, and others ent, as you might say [In reply to]	Can't Post

You're right that the Ents were "retrofitted" into the Silmarillion tradition - after the writing of The Lord of the Rings. All of it, from the passage we are discussing to their intervention in the wars with Morgoth's folk, was made up and added sometime in the late 40s or even 50s to stories that were more or less complete by the end of the 1930s.

Same goes for Galadriel, for the same reason.

Look in the indexes of the History of Middle-earth volumes 4 and 5, which present the textual development of the Silmarillion right up to the point where The Hobbit was launched and Tolkien began its famous 'sequel'. One finds there absolutely no mention of the Ents whatever - and only a few references to Galadriel. She actually appears in the notes a couple of times, where Christopher Tolkien takes the time to point out that she is missing from the main text in places where she later was inserted.

As annoying as it is, I have always found it hard to do more than casual textual analysis of The Silmarillion (1977) - in the sense of, what does this mean or why does he write this like that? - without a working knowledge of HoME. I found this out when I conducted my first Sil discussion on TORn. It's annoying, because it makes a lot of work for everyone and alienates a lot of Tolkien readers who wish the Sil was just a good ripping yarn to read after finishing LotR.

squire online:
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Subject	User	Time
The Silmarillion discussion: Of Aul� and Yavanna	telain	Jan 20 2013, 6:00pm
I do like the last lines of this chapter ;-)	FlyingSerkis	Jan 20 2013, 9:36pm
Alu� and Yavanna	masinger	Jan 20 2013, 10:46pm
now that you mention it...	telain	Jan 21 2013, 1:48pm
what are Valar "children" anyway?	telain	Jan 21 2013, 1:33pm
Dharma and Greg	PhantomS	Jan 21 2013, 2:52pm
of ethical creation	telain	Jan 22 2013, 8:25pm
Counterfeit creatures	noWizardme	Jan 27 2013, 2:45pm
I suspect counterfeit Dwarves are hobbits--beware!/	CuriousG	Jan 28 2013, 3:38am
Of Valar and Marriage Counseling	CuriousG	Jan 21 2013, 7:30pm
that last line...	telain	Jan 23 2013, 8:30pm
I'm going to jump on that comparison!	FlyingSerkis	Jan 23 2013, 9:25pm
Great insights from both of you.//	CuriousG	Jan 23 2013, 9:36pm
thanks!	telain	Jan 24 2013, 6:39pm
Noble goals, dropping it stylistically, selfishness and retrofitted Ents	noWizardme	Jan 24 2013, 10:16pm
Whateth dost thou speaketh of?	telain	Jan 24 2013, 10:59pm
Okay, back to Dwarves, or Telain complaineth to Eru	CuriousG	Jan 25 2013, 12:08am
absolutely no complaints here!	telain	Jan 27 2013, 12:45am
Begging dwarves beggar belief?	noWizardme	Jan 27 2013, 12:38pm
An Ent and a Dwarf walk into a bar (it has to be tried :) )	noWizardme	Jan 27 2013, 1:30pm
I like the 2nd one best./	CuriousG	Jan 28 2013, 3:37am
Some passages are to be found in the original Silmarillion, and others ent, as you might say	squire	Jan 25 2013, 12:58pm
The problem with Ents	CuriousG	Jan 24 2013, 6:01pm
good points!	telain	Jan 24 2013, 6:44pm
Yavanna is to Galadriel as who is to whom?	CuriousG	Jan 24 2013, 6:57pm
very interesting questions!	elostirion74	Jan 22 2013, 9:32pm
Maiar of Aul� and Yavanna	Aragalen the Green	Jan 25 2013, 12:54am
Superb connection!//	CuriousG	Jan 25 2013, 1:34am
Then again, Yavanna...	Aragalen the Green	Jan 25 2013, 1:46am
superb connection seconded!	telain	Jan 27 2013, 12:56am
Fall, Mortalty and the Machine	noWizardme	Jan 27 2013, 12:24pm
Creativity gone amiss	CuriousG	Jan 28 2013, 4:24am
Saruman!	noWizardme	Jan 28 2013, 5:26pm
Don't stop there with the editing	CuriousG	Jan 28 2013, 5:49pm
"creativity gone amiss" and sadly...	telain	Jan 28 2013, 5:57pm
and on to the next chapter...	noWizardme	Feb 3 2013, 5:08pm
Insights from "Arda Reconstructed"	CuriousG	Jan 28 2013, 3:50am
Interesting!	telain	Jan 28 2013, 5:38pm
A long post went down the cyber-drain!	sador	Feb 7 2013, 2:51pm
The writing is still very much JRRT's	Voronw�_the_Faithful	Feb 7 2013, 3:55pm

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