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telain
Rohan
Jan 23 2013, 8:30pm
Views: 3370
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...is so intriguing/frustrating! Such great responses! Now if there were only a few more hours in the day... 'Approachable' is a great word to describe this chapter, CuriousG, and I'll run with that a bit, if you don't mind. One of the things that I realized when I read this chapter is how much more like "real people" the characters of Aule and Yavanna seemed. Since they are supposed to be higher powers, I'm not sure if "more like real people" is good or bad, but it certainly does invite discussion. Aule (from this chapter) seems like the introverted, focused, absent-minded scientist. He doesn't realize that creating his own race of beings might cause problems, and he doesn't get the the not-so-subtle verbal cues from Yavanna. This image helps me understand how he could say that last line without me thinking he is unfeeling and horrible. I have more sympathy for the character if I see him as a bit more obliviously practical. Yavanna is tough. I want to see her as quietly strong; caring, but powerful. Almost like Galadriel's best in Valar form. Yet this chapter does not present her this way -- she is jealous, worried, fearful, even almost petty (in the way she uses language, not the significance of what has happened). She seems to be taken less seriously by the other Valar and Iluvatar. All of this (in my mind) conflicting imagery seems to make more sense when I read this:
Or is Tolkien projecting himself onto her--aren't nature lovers doomed to feel helpless against the destructive and uncaring forces of industry? (And Dwarves are pure industry.) I wonder if that was what Tolkien was up to. It makes sense that the Valar responsible for creating those creatures that are destined to be dominated by others would be more cautious, and more fearful. She already knows what happens to creatures that are perverted by Melkor, whereas the other Valar (esp. in this case, Aule) do not. This does not really explain the jealousy part, but then, later in the chapter she basically admits that she would have done the same if she knew she could get away with it. Which leads me to the Ents. Isn't it interesting that they essentially are dying out in LoTR, because they have lost the Entwives? Sounds like a replay of Yavanna and Aule's spat, though with a slightly different form. The Entwives are more agriculturally-minded, while the Ents are more "wild nature". Maybe if Orome had been consulted, they would have ended differently. Still want to discuss the nature of the Dwarves a bit more since everyone who has responded seems to have interesting viewpoints on them ... soon!
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Subject
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Time
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The Silmarillion discussion: Of Aulë and Yavanna
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telain
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Jan 20 2013, 6:00pm
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I do like the last lines of this chapter ;-)
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FlyingSerkis
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Jan 20 2013, 9:36pm
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Aluë and Yavanna
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masinger
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Jan 20 2013, 10:46pm
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now that you mention it...
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telain
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Jan 21 2013, 1:48pm
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what are Valar "children" anyway?
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telain
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Jan 21 2013, 1:33pm
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Dharma and Greg
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PhantomS
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Jan 21 2013, 2:52pm
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of ethical creation
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telain
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Jan 22 2013, 8:25pm
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Counterfeit creatures
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 2:45pm
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I suspect counterfeit Dwarves are hobbits--beware!/
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 3:38am
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Of Valar and Marriage Counseling
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CuriousG
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Jan 21 2013, 7:30pm
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that last line...
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telain
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Jan 23 2013, 8:30pm
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I'm going to jump on that comparison!
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FlyingSerkis
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Jan 23 2013, 9:25pm
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Great insights from both of you.//
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CuriousG
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Jan 23 2013, 9:36pm
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thanks!
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telain
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Jan 24 2013, 6:39pm
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Noble goals, dropping it stylistically, selfishness and retrofitted Ents
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noWizardme
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Jan 24 2013, 10:16pm
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Whateth dost thou speaketh of?
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telain
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Jan 24 2013, 10:59pm
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Okay, back to Dwarves, or Telain complaineth to Eru
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CuriousG
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Jan 25 2013, 12:08am
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absolutely no complaints here!
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telain
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Jan 27 2013, 12:45am
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Begging dwarves beggar belief?
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 12:38pm
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An Ent and a Dwarf walk into a bar (it has to be tried :) )
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 1:30pm
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I like the 2nd one best./
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 3:37am
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Some passages are to be found in the original Silmarillion, and others ent, as you might say
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squire
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Jan 25 2013, 12:58pm
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The problem with Ents
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CuriousG
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Jan 24 2013, 6:01pm
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good points!
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telain
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Jan 24 2013, 6:44pm
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Yavanna is to Galadriel as who is to whom?
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CuriousG
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Jan 24 2013, 6:57pm
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very interesting questions!
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elostirion74
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Jan 22 2013, 9:32pm
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Maiar of Aulë and Yavanna
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 25 2013, 12:54am
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Superb connection!//
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CuriousG
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Jan 25 2013, 1:34am
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Then again, Yavanna...
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 25 2013, 1:46am
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superb connection seconded!
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telain
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Jan 27 2013, 12:56am
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Fall, Mortalty and the Machine
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 12:24pm
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Creativity gone amiss
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 4:24am
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Saruman!
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noWizardme
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Jan 28 2013, 5:26pm
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Don't stop there with the editing
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 5:49pm
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"creativity gone amiss" and sadly...
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telain
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Jan 28 2013, 5:57pm
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and on to the next chapter...
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noWizardme
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Feb 3 2013, 5:08pm
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Insights from "Arda Reconstructed"
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 3:50am
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Interesting!
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telain
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Jan 28 2013, 5:38pm
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A long post went down the cyber-drain!
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sador
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Feb 7 2013, 2:51pm
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The writing is still very much JRRT's
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 7 2013, 3:55pm
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