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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
that last line...

telain
Rohan

Jan 23 2013, 8:30pm


Views: 312
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that last line... [In reply to] Can't Post

...is so intriguing/frustrating!

Such great responses! Now if there were only a few more hours in the day...

'Approachable' is a great word to describe this chapter, CuriousG, and I'll run with that a bit, if you don't mind. One of the things that I realized when I read this chapter is how much more like "real people" the characters of Aule and Yavanna seemed. Since they are supposed to be higher powers, I'm not sure if "more like real people" is good or bad, but it certainly does invite discussion.

Aule (from this chapter) seems like the introverted, focused, absent-minded scientist. He doesn't realize that creating his own race of beings might cause problems, and he doesn't get the the not-so-subtle verbal cues from Yavanna. This image helps me understand how he could say that last line without me thinking he is unfeeling and horrible. I have more sympathy for the character if I see him as a bit more obliviously practical.

Yavanna is tough. I want to see her as quietly strong; caring, but powerful. Almost like Galadriel's best in Valar form. Yet this chapter does not present her this way -- she is jealous, worried, fearful, even almost petty (in the way she uses language, not the significance of what has happened). She seems to be taken less seriously by the other Valar and Iluvatar. All of this (in my mind) conflicting imagery seems to make more sense when I read this:

Quote
Or is Tolkien projecting himself onto her--aren't nature lovers doomed to feel helpless against the destructive and uncaring forces of industry? (And Dwarves are pure industry.)


I wonder if that was what Tolkien was up to. It makes sense that the Valar responsible for creating those creatures that are destined to be dominated by others would be more cautious, and more fearful. She already knows what happens to creatures that are perverted by Melkor, whereas the other Valar (esp. in this case, Aule) do not. This does not really explain the jealousy part, but then, later in the chapter she basically admits that she would have done the same if she knew she could get away with it.

Which leads me to the Ents. Isn't it interesting that they essentially are dying out in LoTR, because they have lost the Entwives? Sounds like a replay of Yavanna and Aule's spat, though with a slightly different form. The Entwives are more agriculturally-minded, while the Ents are more "wild nature". Maybe if Orome had been consulted, they would have ended differently.

Still want to discuss the nature of the Dwarves a bit more since everyone who has responded seems to have interesting viewpoints on them ... soon!



Subject User Time
The Silmarillion discussion: Of AulŽ and Yavanna telain Send a private message to telain Jan 20 2013, 6:00pm
    I do like the last lines of this chapter ;-) FlyingSerkis Send a private message to FlyingSerkis Jan 20 2013, 9:36pm
        AluŽ and Yavanna masinger Send a private message to masinger Jan 20 2013, 10:46pm
            now that you mention it... telain Send a private message to telain Jan 21 2013, 1:48pm
        what are Valar "children" anyway? telain Send a private message to telain Jan 21 2013, 1:33pm
    Dharma and Greg PhantomS Send a private message to PhantomS Jan 21 2013, 2:52pm
        of ethical creation telain Send a private message to telain Jan 22 2013, 8:25pm
            Counterfeit creatures noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 27 2013, 2:45pm
                I suspect counterfeit Dwarves are hobbits--beware!/ CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 28 2013, 3:38am
    Of Valar and Marriage Counseling CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 21 2013, 7:30pm
        that last line... telain Send a private message to telain Jan 23 2013, 8:30pm
            I'm going to jump on that comparison! FlyingSerkis Send a private message to FlyingSerkis Jan 23 2013, 9:25pm
                Great insights from both of you.// CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 23 2013, 9:36pm
                thanks! telain Send a private message to telain Jan 24 2013, 6:39pm
                    Noble goals, dropping it stylistically, selfishness and retrofitted Ents noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 24 2013, 10:16pm
                        Whateth dost thou speaketh of? telain Send a private message to telain Jan 24 2013, 10:59pm
                            Okay, back to Dwarves, or Telain complaineth to Eru CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 25 2013, 12:08am
                                absolutely no complaints here! telain Send a private message to telain Jan 27 2013, 12:45am
                                    Begging dwarves beggar belief? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 27 2013, 12:38pm
                                An Ent and a Dwarf walk into a bar (it has to be tried :) ) noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 27 2013, 1:30pm
                                    I like the 2nd one best./ CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 28 2013, 3:37am
                        Some passages are to be found in the original Silmarillion, and others ent, as you might say squire Send a private message to squire Jan 25 2013, 12:58pm
            The problem with Ents CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 24 2013, 6:01pm
                good points! telain Send a private message to telain Jan 24 2013, 6:44pm
            Yavanna is to Galadriel as who is to whom? CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 24 2013, 6:57pm
    very interesting questions! elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Jan 22 2013, 9:32pm
    Maiar of AulŽ and Yavanna Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Jan 25 2013, 12:54am
        Superb connection!// CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 25 2013, 1:34am
            Then again, Yavanna... Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Jan 25 2013, 1:46am
                superb connection seconded! telain Send a private message to telain Jan 27 2013, 12:56am
                    Fall, Mortalty and the Machine noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 27 2013, 12:24pm
                        Creativity gone amiss CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 28 2013, 4:24am
                            Saruman! noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 28 2013, 5:26pm
                                Don't stop there with the editing CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 28 2013, 5:49pm
                                "creativity gone amiss" and sadly... telain Send a private message to telain Jan 28 2013, 5:57pm
                                    and on to the next chapter... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Feb 3 2013, 5:08pm
    Insights from "Arda Reconstructed" CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 28 2013, 3:50am
        Interesting! telain Send a private message to telain Jan 28 2013, 5:38pm
    A long post went down the cyber-drain! sador Send a private message to sador Feb 7 2013, 2:51pm
        The writing is still very much JRRT's VoronwŽ_the_Faithful Send a private message to VoronwŽ_the_Faithful Feb 7 2013, 3:55pm

 
 
 

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