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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I agree thoroughly about the dwarves, and largely about the humour.

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 21 2013, 12:21am


Views: 161
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I agree thoroughly about the dwarves, and largely about the humour. [In reply to] Can't Post

I still think the snot was too much, in the way it was over emphasized more than the moment itself. I could have dealt with and even been amused by Tom blowing his nose on Bilbo, if it had ended at that, but the five to ten seconds of lingering, dripping cgi mucous bordered on being revolting, and was utterly superflous. But I agee about some of the other low brow bits of comedy. The Three Stooges behaviour of the trolls (plausible enough, as irratable brutes would be expected to be mildly violent, even among friends), Radagast's fussy bunnies etc. (though none of these things come close, for me, to the comic value of Balin rolling his eyes and all but shaking his head as he speaks briefly of the shortcomings of some of the company lol), and the rest work well in a movie that SHOULD have, and thankfully did, give at least some mind, beyond the basic fact that it is a Wonder story, to the children whom the work they are adapting was originally intended for.

And, frankly (and in no small part due to some of the acting) I found some moments of emotion in AU Jrny, even more authentic than some of those in LOTR, though they were less dramatic and less elevated. Balin's assurances and advice to Thorin while they were still in Bag End felt utterly credible and authentic to me, and I was moved by it, even though no one was dying in those moments and neither the world nor the fate of a race hung in the balance.

In Reply To
I have to confess, I don't understand the hate some fans have regarding this film. As has been well articulated earlier in this thread, I suspect a lot of it has to do with unreasonably high fan and critic expectations along with the fact that The Hobbit is not as compelling a story as the Lord of the Rings is.

Captain Salt doesn't like the film and nothing I will say is going to change that. But I do have a few different perspectives regarding his critique:


Captain Salt:
General lack of character development for the Dwarves

First off, Jackson bowed to the wishes of the fans of the book and put 13 dwarves on film. Screenwriting 101 would have dictated eliminating such a large number of characters and give us five or six dwarves instead. Would fans have preferred that? Given Jackson's character-development challenge when every second of film is precious, I was impressed by how well the film makers pulled it off. I was particularly impressed by the individual looks of the dwarves on film and how the way they looked communicated things about their characters to the movie audience. After AUJ, I felt I had a good feel for the film characters of Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, Bofer, Kili, Fili, Dori, Ori, Gloin, and Oin. And while we may still have questions about them, we were also given a sense of who the film Bomber, Nori, and Bifer are.

Captain Salt:
too much cartoonish low-brow bathroom humor, such as Bilbo fretting over his lack of handkerchief...

Watch the film with children and you'll discover the 'low-brow' humor scenes were some of kids' laugh-out-loud favorites. I thought it was great to have the film makers so sensitive to the younger members of their audience--particularly since the film is an adaptation of a children's fairy tale. And Bilbo fretting over his lack of a hankerchief is straight from the book.


Captain Salt: A weird lack of emotion

In my opinion, the emotion in AUJ wasn't as powerful as FOTR, but FOTR set a high bar and frankly, I never expected it to be as emotional given the different story these films were telling. That said, I found the emotion in AUJ to be compelling. I was very moved by Bilbo's decision to spare Gollum's life. I was also moved by Bilbo's response to Thorin about why he came back--and later, by Thorin's gratitude for Bilbo saving his life. And one of The Most Beautiful Emotional scenes to me was one that was also wonderfully understated: The quiet moments at BagEnd leading up to Bilbo's abrupt decision to leave home and run after the Company.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Subject User Time
The Hobbit will almost certainly hold up as a bona fide chapter in a larger classic film series, despite the mixed and overly cynical reviews. . AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 19 2013, 5:59am
    yepper! swordwhale Send a private message to swordwhale Jan 19 2013, 6:14am
        Quite true. What I think some forget (and the mixing in of Thror's fate doubtless muddied it further) AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 19 2013, 6:30am
    Nothing to add except SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Jan 19 2013, 6:40am
        Yes. Unless they sold them, which seems utterly improbable. New Line was already a division of AOL/Time Warner AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 19 2013, 6:51am
    It will hold up imin Send a private message to imin Jan 19 2013, 7:57am
        fine line indeed. That's what is so hard here, for us as fans to comment on... though we still have a concept of how good it was of course. Xanaseb Send a private message to Xanaseb Jan 19 2013, 12:27pm
            A 6-er box will definitely occur Estel78 Send a private message to Estel78 Jan 19 2013, 1:00pm
        Funny parts of the film ceppault Send a private message to ceppault Jan 19 2013, 3:32pm
        I am fairly confident that had this film managed to get made and released 13 years ago AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 19 2013, 7:15pm
    Trying to make a prequel is the root of the problem burrahobbit Send a private message to burrahobbit Jan 19 2013, 11:49am
        Book adaptation versus written for the screen. glor Send a private message to glor Jan 19 2013, 3:39pm
        The threat of death is not neccessary for Drama. I don't need to fear that Margret Thatcher will be eaten by a shark AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 19 2013, 7:21pm
            There's very little drama in the necromancer story thread burrahobbit Send a private message to burrahobbit Jan 19 2013, 7:38pm
        Using the length of the book as criticism of the three film format. Black Breathalizer Send a private message to Black Breathalizer Jan 21 2013, 3:18pm
    It's one of those movies Súlimë Send a private message to Súlimë Jan 19 2013, 2:45pm
        Exactly my sentiment. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 19 2013, 8:50pm
    Pretty spot on my friend Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Jan 19 2013, 3:26pm
        Thank you, Friend AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 19 2013, 9:37pm
            My pleasure Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Jan 20 2013, 7:25am
                I am more or less of the same mind. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 20 2013, 5:52pm
                    I beg to disagree Black Breathalizer Send a private message to Black Breathalizer Jan 20 2013, 6:30pm
                        And yet Thror had gone mad. The movie already tells you as much. He had succumbed to "a sickness" of the mind. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 20 2013, 7:03pm
                    Agreed Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Jan 20 2013, 6:37pm
                And some are pretty Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 20 2013, 6:34pm
                    I guess Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Jan 20 2013, 6:40pm
                        Lol! Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 20 2013, 6:41pm
                            Captain Salt,does quoting yourself make the point stronger? =) Black Breathalizer Send a private message to Black Breathalizer Jan 20 2013, 6:54pm
                                Black Breathalizer, and YOUR point is what, exactly? =) // Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 20 2013, 7:26pm
                    But, art being subjective, there are no facts of good versus bad. Only matters of taste. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 20 2013, 7:15pm
                        Everything's subjective, and taste Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Jan 20 2013, 8:02pm
                        Well, shall we count what ways that AUJ failed to impress? Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 20 2013, 8:03pm
                            a rebuttal Black Breathalizer Send a private message to Black Breathalizer Jan 20 2013, 9:24pm
                                I agree thoroughly about the dwarves, and largely about the humour. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 21 2013, 12:21am
                                Again, this is simply not the case: Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 21 2013, 6:14am
                                    Aaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllll that typing I did to specifically respond to all that your long , 7 AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 21 2013, 6:45am
                            Bilbo fretting over his handkerchief is from the book. entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Jan 20 2013, 9:48pm
                            I put more stock in what was impressive. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 21 2013, 12:03am
                                I won't refute all of your counter-arguments, as clearly we're not going to agree Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 21 2013, 6:57am
                                    Fair enough AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 21 2013, 7:06am
                                        Never mind, I've responsed to your considerable arguments in full (see above): Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 21 2013, 7:35am
                                Well actually, I'll just respond to your previous post in full: Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 21 2013, 7:34am
                                    Thank you for the careful and thoughtful response. There remain matters on which AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 23 2013, 10:58pm
                    There's room for everyone here Altaira Send a private message to Altaira Jan 20 2013, 7:59pm
                        I was responding to this comment, actually: Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 20 2013, 8:08pm
                            The same applies to that comment Altaira Send a private message to Altaira Jan 20 2013, 8:40pm
                    Your very negative comments regarding fellow posters is uncalled for. Old Toby Send a private message to Old Toby Jan 21 2013, 4:51am
                        Thanks very much for sharing. Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 21 2013, 6:42am
                            *points to top of the board* Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Jan 21 2013, 6:52am
                                I certainly hope he replies AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 21 2013, 6:56am
    Don't agree at all... Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 19 2013, 4:41pm
        Well, we are all entitled to our opinions, and varying tastes. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 19 2013, 9:03pm
        Have the opposite reaction IdrilofGondolin Send a private message to IdrilofGondolin Jan 20 2013, 12:34am
        Um, I assume you only speak for yourself Old Toby Send a private message to Old Toby Jan 20 2013, 2:27am
    I agree peace1993 Send a private message to peace1993 Jan 19 2013, 6:25pm
    The same criticisms were said of FotR... bborchar Send a private message to bborchar Jan 19 2013, 6:59pm
        Not really, no. Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 19 2013, 7:09pm
            I explained... bborchar Send a private message to bborchar Jan 19 2013, 7:34pm
                And I'm saying Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 19 2013, 7:58pm
                    No, many are not of that opinion... bborchar Send a private message to bborchar Jan 19 2013, 8:18pm
                        In fact just the opposite... Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 19 2013, 8:30pm
                            I don't think anyone is saying... bborchar Send a private message to bborchar Jan 19 2013, 9:01pm
                            *bangs head on keyboard* Roheryn Send a private message to Roheryn Jan 19 2013, 9:26pm
                                Nice way of putting it... bborchar Send a private message to bborchar Jan 19 2013, 10:51pm
                                You're a breath of fresh air here! Old Toby Send a private message to Old Toby Jan 20 2013, 2:45am
                                    I'm kind of curious if this is age related at all Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Jan 20 2013, 3:05am
                                        Could be... Roheryn Send a private message to Roheryn Jan 20 2013, 4:09am
                                        Flawlessly stated. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 20 2013, 5:02am
                                            My rants Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Jan 20 2013, 7:41am
                                                Maybe not an important thought Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Jan 21 2013, 10:22pm
                                    More like a breath of rather old air. :-) Roheryn Send a private message to Roheryn Jan 20 2013, 3:56am
                                Yay Ro! entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Jan 20 2013, 3:25am
                                    No, Starling Send a private message to Starling Jan 20 2013, 3:35am
                                If I dig deep enough, I can find all kinds of fault with LOTR as movies. Kimtc Send a private message to Kimtc Jan 20 2013, 3:58am
                                *bangs self on keyboard* Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 20 2013, 6:17pm
                    That's not the situation peace1993 Send a private message to peace1993 Jan 20 2013, 4:12am
                        And the echo chamber/group think/fan denial continues... // Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 20 2013, 6:18pm
                            Disagreement with an OPINION is not "denial", "group think", nor "echo chamber"// Kirly Send a private message to Kirly Jan 20 2013, 10:47pm
                                at some point, you have to consider that someone is just yanking people's chains Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Jan 21 2013, 1:30am
                                    I have only just returned for a short time, but yes, began to think that yesterday.// Kirly Send a private message to Kirly Jan 21 2013, 2:21am
                                    I don't know. I don't think being indelicate or over genralizing are definite signs of a Troll. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 21 2013, 3:10am
                                        I don't necessarily think people who like to yank chains are trolls Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Jan 21 2013, 4:24pm
                                Eh, no but the kneejerk response of: Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 21 2013, 6:20am
        Yes they were.. glor Send a private message to glor Jan 19 2013, 8:20pm
            Thank you... bborchar Send a private message to bborchar Jan 19 2013, 8:35pm
                A film should work on its own merrits. Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 19 2013, 8:52pm
            FotR got a good critical response... burrahobbit Send a private message to burrahobbit Jan 19 2013, 9:26pm
                Oscars and critics two different ball games glor Send a private message to glor Jan 19 2013, 11:16pm
                    ... burrahobbit Send a private message to burrahobbit Jan 19 2013, 11:56pm
                        I think we may agrere to disagree on the post-modern politics of criticism but.. glor Send a private message to glor Jan 20 2013, 12:37am
                Thank you! Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Jan 20 2013, 6:21pm
        Pre-release Fan Expectations for AUJ & FOTR Black Breathalizer Send a private message to Black Breathalizer Jan 20 2013, 4:41pm
            Thank you :) bborchar Send a private message to bborchar Jan 20 2013, 5:31pm
    Can't speak for everyone Grant Send a private message to Grant Jan 19 2013, 7:04pm
    It will sit fairly well next to LOTR on a shelf, but... jtarkey Send a private message to jtarkey Jan 19 2013, 9:22pm
    The only review I really care about Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jan 20 2013, 5:21am
        45 years is a long time to wait. .and PJ didn't.. Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Jan 20 2013, 7:02am

 
 
 

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