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masinger
Registered User
Jan 20 2013, 10:46pm
Views: 3543
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I think this section likely reflects Tolkien's changing ideas about Dwarves as the mythology developed and as LoTR was written. To me, it looks like this more positive view may have a terminus ad quem of 1937 with the sending of the material of The Silmarillion to Allen and Unwin. The actual story is presented in The Lhammas (The Lost Road 194-5) as a comment by Pengolod/Pengoloð to Rúmil's writing about the origin of languages. There, though, Pengolod says "the Dwarves have no spirits indwelling" and the story of Ilúvatar noting that they demonstrate free will by begging not to be destroyed by Aluë is a later addition. One way to read all of this might be to assume that Rúmil knew little of Dwarves and that what Pengolod knew was less than positive, so that later glosses had to correct this error. Those glosses made use of invented speeches, something that is common in antique and medieval histories alike to illustrate events that were known to be true. They may even reflect what the Dwarves said about themselves, though they wouldn't necessarily have to do so.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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The Silmarillion discussion: Of Aulë and Yavanna
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telain
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Jan 20 2013, 6:00pm
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I do like the last lines of this chapter ;-)
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FlyingSerkis
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Jan 20 2013, 9:36pm
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Aluë and Yavanna
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masinger
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Jan 20 2013, 10:46pm
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now that you mention it...
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telain
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Jan 21 2013, 1:48pm
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what are Valar "children" anyway?
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telain
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Jan 21 2013, 1:33pm
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Dharma and Greg
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PhantomS
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Jan 21 2013, 2:52pm
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of ethical creation
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telain
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Jan 22 2013, 8:25pm
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Counterfeit creatures
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 2:45pm
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I suspect counterfeit Dwarves are hobbits--beware!/
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 3:38am
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Of Valar and Marriage Counseling
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CuriousG
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Jan 21 2013, 7:30pm
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that last line...
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telain
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Jan 23 2013, 8:30pm
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I'm going to jump on that comparison!
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FlyingSerkis
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Jan 23 2013, 9:25pm
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Great insights from both of you.//
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CuriousG
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Jan 23 2013, 9:36pm
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thanks!
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telain
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Jan 24 2013, 6:39pm
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Noble goals, dropping it stylistically, selfishness and retrofitted Ents
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noWizardme
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Jan 24 2013, 10:16pm
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Whateth dost thou speaketh of?
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telain
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Jan 24 2013, 10:59pm
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Okay, back to Dwarves, or Telain complaineth to Eru
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CuriousG
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Jan 25 2013, 12:08am
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absolutely no complaints here!
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telain
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Jan 27 2013, 12:45am
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Begging dwarves beggar belief?
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 12:38pm
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An Ent and a Dwarf walk into a bar (it has to be tried :) )
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 1:30pm
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I like the 2nd one best./
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 3:37am
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Some passages are to be found in the original Silmarillion, and others ent, as you might say
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squire
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Jan 25 2013, 12:58pm
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The problem with Ents
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CuriousG
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Jan 24 2013, 6:01pm
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good points!
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telain
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Jan 24 2013, 6:44pm
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Yavanna is to Galadriel as who is to whom?
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CuriousG
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Jan 24 2013, 6:57pm
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very interesting questions!
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elostirion74
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Jan 22 2013, 9:32pm
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Maiar of Aulë and Yavanna
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 25 2013, 12:54am
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Superb connection!//
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CuriousG
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Jan 25 2013, 1:34am
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Then again, Yavanna...
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 25 2013, 1:46am
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superb connection seconded!
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telain
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Jan 27 2013, 12:56am
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Fall, Mortalty and the Machine
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noWizardme
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Jan 27 2013, 12:24pm
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Creativity gone amiss
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 4:24am
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Saruman!
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noWizardme
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Jan 28 2013, 5:26pm
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Don't stop there with the editing
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 5:49pm
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"creativity gone amiss" and sadly...
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telain
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Jan 28 2013, 5:57pm
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and on to the next chapter...
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noWizardme
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Feb 3 2013, 5:08pm
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Insights from "Arda Reconstructed"
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CuriousG
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Jan 28 2013, 3:50am
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Interesting!
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telain
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Jan 28 2013, 5:38pm
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A long post went down the cyber-drain!
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sador
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Feb 7 2013, 2:51pm
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The writing is still very much JRRT's
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 7 2013, 3:55pm
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